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TGC's Sonic Retrospectives Adventure 2, Heroes, and '06 inbound!

#1 User is online Josh 

Posted 08 December 2018 - 08:10 PM

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Hope this is okay to post here - I made a topic for my classic series four years back, and I've come quite a ways since then, but now I'm finally getting back to Sonic!

I always try to find a unique perspective on these topics, and a whole lot of the way I did that throughout these three episodes was to use the fact that I was a part of the online Sonic community at the time. So in SA2 for instance, I could recall what a love-it-or-hate-it game it was right from the beginning.

Anyway, I'll keep this topic updated as the series releases over the next few weeks, and as usual I've got to give a huge thank you to Retro! This place really is an invaluable source of information and historical context.

#2 User is offline Jmtshaw 

Posted 09 December 2018 - 01:34 AM

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There's some real shit on YouTube, but I liked this vid. It's a balanced analysis of the game's strengths and weaknesses.

One thing is bugging me though - you bring up localization issues, but then also use examples still related to the localization when talking about story issues. Namely:
  • Shadow speaking over himself after deciding to save Rouge.
  • Knuckles saying Amy saw Eggman and Rouge (In Japanese he asks her "More importantly, is it true the bat-girl was with Eggman's gang?")
  • Shadow realizing who Rouge is (The Japanese version has him say "You're the Federal Government President's specialist agent, Rouge the Bat." and has Rouge reply with "Did you read up on me?", implying more that Shadow did some research rather than Rouge being famous for some reason.)
They can still be brought up, just for different reasons to what the vid implies there. Rouge is completely non-existent in Hero Story other than to argue with Knuckles, so Amy seemingly brings up this info out of nowhere unless you've played Dark story. The other example the game still never shows Shadow becoming suspicious or doing that research on Rouge. It only barely touches upon a motivation for it with Eggman yelling at his computer before Cosmic Wall, which doesn't show Shadow until Eggman moves on from that point.

SA2 has like one of the worst localization jobs in the series for a main title, alongside Shadow's game. Among other things, it has more funny screw ups than that Biolizard line - the point Amy makes to Shadow is that no matter how messed up and evil a person can be, they're basically good as long as they think what they're doing is right - and you should help them! Plus, Eggman implying to Knuckles he'd have loved to destroy the planet a long time ago if he got the chance, rather than turning off Gerald's destruction sequence (Caused by one word: "This" rather than "That").

#3 User is offline SuperSnoopy 

Posted 09 December 2018 - 04:06 AM

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It's a pretty nice video so far :)/> (haven't got the time to finish it yet but I'll get to it eventually)

Also:

View PostJmtshaw, on 09 December 2018 - 01:34 AM, said:

SA2 has like one of the worst localization jobs in the series for a main title, alongside Shadow's game.

I'm interested in this. I don't want to derail the topic but could anybody TLDR me about this ? I always thought Shadow the Hedgehog was just poorly written.
This post has been edited by SuperSnoopy: 09 December 2018 - 04:06 AM

#4 User is offline TheKazeblade 

Posted 09 December 2018 - 04:59 AM

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View PostSuperSnoopy, on 09 December 2018 - 04:06 AM, said:

View PostJmtshaw, on 09 December 2018 - 01:34 AM, said:

SA2 has like one of the worst localization jobs in the series for a main title, alongside Shadow's game.

I'm interested in this. I don't want to derail the topic but could anybody TLDR me about this ? I always thought Shadow the Hedgehog was just poorly written.


This was always my assumption. SA2 was really the last of the truly clunky localizations of the series, from Heroes on they improved significantly, but the actual writing just doesn't leave a lot of room to be much better than passable.

This was a great video! Loved the in-depth look. Can't wait for Heroes!

#5 User is offline FollOw 

Posted 09 December 2018 - 04:34 PM

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I really liked your ending. I too was a teenager by the time this game first came out so I don't have the same nostalgia the younger generation had. While I loved it (first time playing was when it went to Gamecube) I do remember people having very strong feelings about the game either good or bad. I was in the camp that was defending the game, and while I love the Genesis titles more, the Adventure titles have a lot of fun in them as well.... I think the only difference between me and you was I played the Chao gardens to death...
This post has been edited by FollOw: 17 December 2018 - 12:51 AM

#6 User is offline Yash 

Posted 09 December 2018 - 07:08 PM

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My understanding of the “suddenly Rouge is in trouble after Security Hall” scene is that the boss fight held her up long enough there was no way she'd get out in time, even after beating it. In the cut scene right before the fight she says “I can't believe I came this far, just to fail!” and Lani Minella's delivery of her victory line (“Yeah, I'm pretty strong, alright”) has this weird melancholic feel to it. She “won” but at an extremely high price.

#7 User is offline Jmtshaw 

Posted 09 December 2018 - 08:26 PM

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Rouge doesn't talk about failing in Japanese when she first sees the boss, she's just annoyed at messing up (over being caught).
JP Rouge: "I had to mess up at the very end!"

Flying Dog gets the stage (it is the "vault") locked down after it takes enough damage, it says so in the fight:
JP Flying Dog: "Flying Dog reporting to command HQ. An intruder has been sighted in Security Hall. I am preparing to attack. (Understood.)"
JP Flying Dog at 1HP: "Flying Dog to HQ! I am taking heavy damage! Requesting to seal Security Hall ASAP!!"

The English translation sounds like they've read it as "security hole", so it's just shouting nonsense:
EN Flying Dog: "This is Flying Dog to headquarters. Intruder found entering security hole. Preparing to attack. (Copy that.)"
EN Flying Dog at 1HP: "This is Flying Dog to headquarters. We're taking heavy damage. Close the security hole!"
This post has been edited by Jmtshaw: 09 December 2018 - 08:26 PM

#8 User is online Josh 

Posted 15 December 2018 - 06:47 PM

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I didn't know that stuff about the translation, but that's really illuminating, and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the insight! I found that video where someone's retranslated the Japanese version of SA2, and I'll probably cite it for my Shadow the Hedgehog video. Again: Thank you!

Here's my least-favorite game in the entire series, and I feel like I've been waiting for 15 years to put the reason into words. Hope you all enjoy!



#9 User is offline JaxTH 

Posted 15 December 2018 - 07:39 PM

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So what game are you stopping at? I tend not to watch things until a series is over.

#10 User is online Josh 

Posted 15 December 2018 - 07:46 PM

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The next episode is the last one of this season, and that's Sonic '06.

I've gotten scripts written for each of the three Advance games, so they'll come out next.

#11 User is offline UpCDownCLeftCRightC 

Posted 15 December 2018 - 11:51 PM

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Heroes is also my least favorite game of the series, minus '06.
I played it for xbox when it first came out, early teens. Biggest crime of the game is the fact that it is incredibly dull. As dull as the worst parts of SA2 but extended over an entire game. I remember back then feeling like this was the first big miss in the sonic series. SA2 I had mixed feelings about as well, but I at least found parts of the game to be pretty enjoyable. Heroes I didnt enjoy playing at all.

#12 User is offline Jmtshaw 

Posted 16 December 2018 - 01:52 AM

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I was very excited for Heroes only to stop playing when it wouldn't let me into the Last story lmao. I never got why that game made beating it with all four teams mandatory, especially with the whole thing about "beating the game twice then being put into a tutorial stage where you get to listen to Omochao force you into dialogue every few seconds".

EDIT: Oh, looking back I hate how Knuckles was handled too. Heroes basically butchered his character into "Sonic Buddy #2". IMO, Amy fits the role of a power type for Sonic more than a speed type for her own team.

Also, about Shadow's game: Windii found out the last ending has one of the biggest translation errors in the series: The GUN Commander and the President are supposed to be talking about Shadow saving everyone, but in English they start thanking Gerald instead. (JP) (EN)
Plus, they don't remove the Japanese cheering - they just play a different one over it.
This post has been edited by Jmtshaw: 20 December 2018 - 09:15 AM

#13 User is online Blue Blood 

Posted 16 December 2018 - 07:29 AM

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I love the way that the Heroes retrospective was structured. Specifically, you focus entirely on the ups and downs of Team Sonic before you even mention the other teams existing as clones that only compound those issues four-fold. It mimics the structure of the game in a very effective manner.

#14 User is offline Overlord 

Posted 17 December 2018 - 06:44 PM

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Watched this with a friend I was visiting in Yorkshire - you're pretty much bang on with Heroes, only you had more patience with it than I did as I never got as far as Metal Overlord (fun fact: I actually got my nick on the CulT board edited to "(Metal) Overlord" for a brief period after Heroes came out!) - the game's not aged well and it was poor even at the time, though yes worse was to come.

#15 User is online MainMemory 

Posted 18 December 2018 - 12:31 AM

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Sonic Heroes is a game that I like in concept, and I remember having fun with it, but I never feel compelled to go back and replay it. Great video as always, it's just too bad I didn't have any quotes about 06 for you to use.

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