[Sonica]

Was that lava ever animated? It'd even be interesting to see a concept animation if there was one.

[zemulii]

So about the soft shading... Did you do that with vector blur effects? Or did you polish up the vectors in a raster format? I was always curious how you actually went about it...

Edit: Oh and I don't mean the blur effects in those animations. I mean shading on the artwork.

This post has been edited by zemulii: 22 April 2012 - 05:34 AM

[Sonica]

I don't think they used blurred vectors, but with blurred vectors you can get pretty similar results.

I made this ages ago using just that.

[scanline99]

Sonica, on 22 April 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

Was that lava ever animated? It'd even be interesting to see a concept animation if there was one.

It was Sonica, though I half-heartedly cobbled the animation together a while back (roughly March 2011 when my hope had practically evaporated that an Alpha would be ever be ready any time soon) and so it really isn't up to snuff with the other assets that made it in game. It needed alot of clean up work done, though, based on that still, I'm sure you can imagine what it's doing (bubbles rising up and bursting, rinse, repeat). It's buried on one of my drives stashed away somewhere so it's not immediately accessible and there isn't a rough export up anywhere online sadly (bar that token frame you see on facebook) so I'm afraid I've nothing else to share at this point in time .

This post has been edited by scanline99: 22 April 2012 - 09:40 AM

[Sonica]

What a shame. Well, I would love to see anything that hasn't yet been shown, that you lot can get your hands on, it's all very interesting even though it probably won't be used.

[Volpino]

Vincent, on 22 April 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

Volpino, you can actually see all the unused WIP art on the links posted over Facebook news weeks ago:

http://www.s2hd.com/cl/CHARS.html
http://www.s2hd.com/cl/HTZ-clog.html

Was the first link animated? If it is, it isn't showing up in my browser. (I use Chrome)

[Sonica]

The top middle and right are the only animated. I don't think Chrome supports APNG though.

[Volpino]

Sonica, on 22 April 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

The top middle and right are the only animated. I don't think Chrome supports APNG though.

Oh. Had to open Firefox to see it, but that was worth it. I am amazed at how little was done due to lack of interest. (Well, more than I could ever do, admittedly, but still less than I'd ever expected)

A bit unrelated but it wouldn't be considered callous and insensitive to post any HD concepts of our own here, would it? I do not want to insult the people who worked hard on this game.

[scanline99]

Volpino, on 22 April 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

I am amazed at how little was done due to lack of interest. (Well, more than I could ever do, admittedly, but still less than I'd ever expected)

It's a wonder even that stuff got made, particularly the additional Sonic/Super Sonic/Tails frames in that fb .png post which were all Vince's handiwork (I hadn't touched any of those frames) which were made only a few months back and when there was barely a hope in hell of adding any additional bonus content to the game. It's incredibly hard to drive oneself to make new assets when it seems likely to be in vain (and additionally when, as I said before, Vince, CN and I had to fight hard to get many basic and necessary changes made).

I just want to highlight (just in case it isn't clear) that there were those of us who at the project's height (staff morale-wise) in 2010 behind the scenes who really worked our bollocks off to get things done, looking cohesive and best reflecting that of the Japanese boxart and concept work from the early 90's. All visuals were remade from scratch in that year and if it were our day jobs, it probably would have taken around 2-3 months to get everything straight, but of course, this ends up being very spread out when it is merely a weekend or evening task. From the outside it could well have looked like we sat around making the occasional tweak here and there to stagnant assets from 2008 up until 2012, but this simply wasn't the case. When there isn't that carrot on the end of the stick any more, you run out of steam .

This post has been edited by scanline99: 22 April 2012 - 11:40 AM

[Volpino]

scanline99, on 22 April 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Volpino, on 22 April 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

I am amazed at how little was done due to lack of interest. (Well, more than I could ever do, admittedly, but still less than I'd ever expected)

It's a wonder even that stuff got made, particularly the additional Sonic/Super Sonic/Tails frames in that fb .png post which were all Vince's handiwork (I hadn't touched any of those frames) which were made only a few months back and when there was barely a hope in hell of adding any additional bonus content to the game. It's incredibly hard to drive oneself to make new assets when it seems likely to be in vain (and additionally when, as I said before, Vince, CN and I had to fight hard to get many basic and necessary changes made).

I just want to highlight (just in case it isn't clear) that there were those of us who at the project's height (staff morale-wise) in 2010 behind the scenes who really worked our bollocks off to get things done, looking cohesive and best reflecting that of the Japanese boxart and concept work from the early 90's. All visuals were remade from scratch in that year and if it were our day jobs, it probably would have taken around 2-3 months to get everything straight, but of course, this ends up being very spread out when it is merely a weekend or evening task. From the outside it could well have looked like we sat around making the occasional tweak here and there to stagnant assets from 2008 up until 2012, but this simply wasn't the case. When there isn't that carrot on the end of the stick any more, you run out of steam .

I wasn't criticizing you, I was sympathizing, moreso. I know you've all said that you didn't have the drive, but actually seeing the work with the stories behind it really reinforces that point.

[SANiK]

Vincent, on 18 April 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

the project's leadership was unaware of both the DRM and the now infamous DirectInput bug. This was the last straw for us.

Vincent, on 21 April 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

I lack seeing any point into releasing S2HD assets just to be roughly cannibalized a second after by a plethora of subpar fan-games. It would only blur their quality and uniqueness -if out of the original context they were drawn. Not even mentioning the confusion some kids will generate by 'shopping a bunch of pixels and claim the work as theirs.

nights0223 said:

Source: http://www.reddit.co...stalgia/c45rjsc

The DRM technique employed is unfortunately the lesser of two evils that our programmer would settle for. Simply put, he is extremely paranoid and initially wanted to try to remove any capability to take screenshots or capture video as well. Insane I know. I'm very sorry to hear so many people are having issues with the game, if it were up to me completely, the game would have no security measures whatsoever since the whole point is to let as many people enjoy it as possible.

(Possibly Wrong Speculation: The attempt to block out printscreen might have explained the DirectInput "bug" - trying to listen for the printscreen button even when the game's out of focus)

The reason LOst put in the DRM and went as far to attempt to block out print screen is really simple: He did not want fan games being made using the S2HD assets.
And you shared this goal with him, and you still share it now.

So LOst encrypted the game data, and to slow down someone from finding the decryption code within the game,
he encrypted the game program itself and packaged it with DRM.
The things LOst did in terms of DRM were matching your (subconscious?) wishes of keeping the assets out of community hands.

Someone else mentioned not releasing the assets because of the issue of art styles not matching "so it's better to have the new people redo all the art." That is just plain wrong. The collaborative animation industry shows this is not a problem. Art styles can be learned.

This post has been edited by SANiK: 22 April 2012 - 01:02 PM

[Guess Who]

The problem with the way LOst tried to go about keeping assets protected is that you have to strike a balance between the rights of the content creators and the rights of the users. Prohibiting basic functionality like Print Screen tramples all over the rights of users in an attempt to protect the content. It's the same problem old music DRM had, which is why music DRM died a painful death.

[Volpino]

Guess Who, on 22 April 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

The problem with the way LOst tried to go about keeping assets protected is that you have to strike a balance between the rights of the content creators and the rights of the users. Prohibiting basic functionality like Print Screen tramples all over the rights of users in an attempt to protect the content. It's the same problem old music DRM had, which is why music DRM died a painful death.

I actually have to agree, as much as I'd like to see the assets, it's not the same as what LOst did by keeping them private. Not wishing to openly share art assets you worked on is not the same thing as putting infamous DRM in a fan game. DRM in a fan game is illegal, keeping your art to yourself on your machine is not. I drew some Kirby fan art a while ago, but only released a version of it with one layer. I'm not stopping people from looking at it or printscreening it by putting shit in their computer but I'm not releasing all the individual layers either, and for a similar reason Vincent doesn't want to; this took me a week to do over my winter break, I don't want someone else taking credit for it.

Edit: At the same time, I do feel somewhat disappointed that an originally open project has become so closed. If the project were closed from the beginning, I would not mind the reluctance to release assets at all, the project's origins are why I mind at all, really.

This post has been edited by Volpino: 22 April 2012 - 01:37 PM

[SANiK]

Volpino, on 22 April 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

I actually have to agree, as much as I'd like to see the assets, it's not the same as what LOst did by keeping them private. Not wishing to openly share art assets you worked on is not the same thing as putting infamous DRM in a fan game.

Volpino's Kirby in Creation:
Bunch of layers

Volpino's Kirby if used in a Game:
Just the collapsed image with transparency.

Volpino's Kirby if used in LOst's engine:
An encrypted collapsed image with transparency.

What people want when asking for assets?
The collapsed image with transparency.

What does LOst's DRM protect?
The collapsed image with transparency.

Does the artist have to give up the layered creation image?
No.

What does Volpino (if she were working on Kirby HD) prefer to keep out of the community's hands?
Both, the collapsed image with transparency, and the layered creation image.

What could people get right away with no problem if LOst never implemented DRM?
The collapsed image with transparency.

If people defeated the DRM to get the assets from Kirby HD, would Volpino cry foul, while still proclaiming that the DRM in Kirby HD is entirely LOst's fault, citing the DRM as unnecessary?
Undefined.

This post has been edited by SANiK: 22 April 2012 - 01:54 PM

[Travelsonic]

Volpino, on 22 April 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

url="http://kazeskyfox.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4mdx9i"]Kirby[/url] fan art a while ago, but only released a version of it with one layer. I'm not stopping people from looking at it or printscreening it by putting shit in their computer but I'm not releasing all the individual layers either, and for a similar reason Vincent doesn't want to; this took me a week to do over my winter break, I don't want someone else taking credit for it.

Hope I don't come off as crass or anything, not my intent, but you do know that the issue of people taking credit for it without actually having done it CAN be overcome without locking it down, right?

Didn't seem to be much of an issue in the Sonic fan game community - or at least, when it became a problem it was dealt with swiftly, and I had been lurking about there for nearly what, 13 years now [fuck, I feel old], so I got to witness quite a few things go down / get resolved.