[Tamkis]

With Sonic 2 Loco mostly finished. and with Megaman 2 being put on hold while Karate Kat does his magic on the hack's disasm, I have decided that for my next hack, I would do something different, something that few people have done. You know what I'm talking about: hacking Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Even with a primitive disasm, this “super-game” does not get enough love <3 when it comes to hacking. So, I thought, why not try my hand at hacking S3K, and do some pioneering hacking? And thus, my S3&K hack was born!

Although the title and goals of my S3&K hack are subject to change, I am thinking about making a harder S3&K game, since I have learned that making hard levels is my specialty. This hack, called S3K Loco, is similar in concept to Sonic 1 Harder Levels. Like with Sonic Loco 2 and with S1HL, I plan on making this a “complete” hack with “all the works”: modified palettes, new music, some new art, modified level & misc. stage layouts, modified special stages, &c. If possible, I might implement some new code, such as some new monitors, and other surprsies.

In specifics, here are goals thus far:
• Modified palettes
o Mostly level palettes/water palettes
o Special stage palettes

• New Music
o Porting music from various Sonic games (S3D, SC/KC, S2F, et. al.) and non-Sonic games (MJ's Moonwalker, Ristar)

• New art
o New Knuckles art (from Knuckel's Chaotix
o Some other new art (Titlecard mods, SEGA logo)

• Modified level layouts
o Mostly modified level layouts for harder levels
o More Knuckles-only paths
o Some new/modified chunks
o 4 new levels
 Porting the 2p levels to 1p mode
 IF POSSIBLE, going to be an extreme pain in the ass

• Modified special stages

• New code
o New SEGA PCM ("I'm outta here!" from SCD)
o New monitors
• Reverse gravity monitor
 (Implemented, but not in game yet. See the new monitor with debug mode)

o New player modes
 Red Knuckles alone
 Blue Knuckels alone
 Red Knuckles and Tails
 Blue Knuckles and Tails

o Modified level events
 water level
 starting points
 Other stuff to make the levels work the way I want

Pics:
Slideshow

Vids:
Vid1
Vid2
Vid3
Vid4

Here is Demo V0.02, which is greatly improved from the first version. Implemented are the new player modes, 98% of the music inserted (though, not modified since initial porting), the new SEGA PCM, 2 harder special stages, and improved Angel Island Zone. Listen to the new songs in the level select menu (Debug/Level Select codes are the same as in the vanilla S3&K). There are still many bugs though; I shall concentrate on squishing them in the next release.

Known bugs (V0.02):
• (Same bugs as V0.01)
• Blue Knuckles sprites are garbled in the slots bonus stage. I don't know why...
• Wrong graphics for new player modes in Save screen (new character sprites haven't been implemented yet)
• Some buggy music
• In Blue/Red knuckles & Tails mode in AIZ1, Tails doesn't appear until you die once
• Sonic sounds like a chipmunk in the SEGA PCM (wrong frequency for PCM file)
• 2nd Special stage is a WIP (crashes for some unknown reason at a point)
• (Other possible bugs)


Known bugs (V0.01)
• Slot machine starting point needs to be fixed, but the level is at least developed
• SMB1 scrolling style occurs in AIZ1 until you die/respawn once, or use level select
• Sonic &/or tails starts at their starting point once in AIZ1 until they die/respawn once
• PLC for some art in AIZ1 needs to be fixed
• AIZ2's Knuckles route is underwater if you don't use level select and until you die/respawn once (supposed to be permanent effect)

Credits:
Flamewing, for teaching me how to deal with porting music
Nineko, for 2 songs from Sonineko (LBZ S&KC, ICZ S&KC), and for Blue Balls
Valleybell, for the Megaman invincibility music from MM2RW

This post has been edited by Tamkis: 15 October 2011 - 06:43 PM

[jasonchrist]

I'll look forward to this immensely!

[steveswede]

Tamkis, on 07 October 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

Vids:
Vid1

At 53 seconds, those spikes that you just missed and then hit another set later is really bad level design from the point that you can't see what your falling on to. Stuff like that is in the league of cheap difficulty and creates frustration in my eyes as it's more about luck that skill and I hope there ain't any other sections like that in later levels.

Also why change Knuckles sprites? The Chaotix sprites are bitch ugly and clashes with the Megadrive art.

[Ravenfreak]

This is pretty good. The new layouts look promising, but I haven't had the chance to play the ROM yet. I'll definitely keep watching this thread for updates and when I get the chance to download it, I'll edit my post. ^_^

[Tamkis]

steveswede, on 07 October 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:

Tamkis, on 07 October 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

Vids:
Vid1

At 53 seconds, those spikes that you just missed and then hit another set later is really bad level design from the point that you can't see what your falling on to. Stuff like that is in the league of cheap difficulty and creates frustration in my eyes as it's more about luck that skill and I hope there ain't any other sections like that in later levels.

I will remove those two spikes in the next preview build.

Quote

Also why change Knuckles sprites? The Chaotix sprites are bitch ugly and clashes with the Megadrive art.

If the "clashing" that you are referring to is the palette color (pinkish), I could always use Knuckles' original palette (reddish).

I was planning on asking this later, but since you brought it up, which is more preferable: picture A (adapted palette from 32x) or picture B (knuckle's original palette)? I personally prefer B, but what do you guys think I should use?

A:


B:


One more thing: should I keep Knuckles combi ring or not?

[jasonchrist]

Tamkis, on 07 October 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

steveswede, on 07 October 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:

Tamkis, on 07 October 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

Vids:
Vid1

At 53 seconds, those spikes that you just missed and then hit another set later is really bad level design from the point that you can't see what your falling on to. Stuff like that is in the league of cheap difficulty and creates frustration in my eyes as it's more about luck that skill and I hope there ain't any other sections like that in later levels.

I will remove those two spikes in the next preview build.

Quote

Also why change Knuckles sprites? The Chaotix sprites are bitch ugly and clashes with the Megadrive art.

If the "clashing" that you are referring to is the palette color (pinkish), I could always use Knuckles' original palette (reddish).

I was planning on asking this later, but since you brought it up, which is more preferable: picture A (adapted palette from 32x) or picture B (knuckle's original palette)? I personally prefer B, but what do you guys think I should use?

A:


B:


One more thing: should I keep Knuckles combi ring or not?

1. B

2. Lose it!!

This post has been edited by jasonchrist: 07 October 2011 - 03:52 PM

[Mikel]

I'd say you should remove the combi ring, unless you are going to include a Sonic Crackers/Knuckles' Chaotix mode for this hack.

Also, palette B fits with the original S3K Palette for Knuckles.

[Animemaster]

Personally unless your going to do a 32X styled Sonic and tails I don't think theres no point at all. But thats mainly because I don't like those knuckles chaotix sprites, but its up to you. I like the ideas, but I hope you can implement them. Sometimes putting too many goals could result in not being able to achieve some of them.

[steveswede]

Tamkis, on 07 October 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

I will remove those two spikes in the next preview build.

Fantastic just make sure nothing like that is featured in other levels because from what I've seen the rest of the level is very good.

Tamkis, on 07 October 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

If the "clashing" that you are referring to is the palette color (pinkish), I could always use Knuckles' original palette (reddish).

I was planning on asking this later, but since you brought it up, which is more preferable: picture A (adapted palette from 32x) or picture B (knuckle's original palette)? I personally prefer B, but what do you guys think I should use?

A:


B:


One more thing: should I keep Knuckles combi ring or not?

It's not just the colour but the whole sprite in general. You are the ultimate decision maker as it is your hack so you do what want but out of the two you've put up, B is better.

Also yes to getting rid of the ring.

[Robjoe]

Alright, I downloaded this and gave it a whirl. I'm sorry to say, but... It's pretty bad.

The level design is a mess. Right off the bat, Sonic encounters an area choked with several objects, causing sprite overflow issues and lagging the game (not to mention it's a bad idea in general to just throw objects in the middle of the path when the player is moving fast).

Moreover, the level itself feels very unprofessional with the massive amount of misused tiles. You should take time to try and find tiles that fit together smoothly, as it can really go a long way to giving the level a good feeling.

The biggest area in which I'd say this needs work, however, is the difficulty factor. For instance, in the beginning of the burning segment of act 1, you throw the player into near-unavoidable spike traps constantly. Not to mention there's a bottomless pit in the green part of act 1, which is frustrating, especially for the very first level. Really, there's not much here that feels legitimately hard. It's mainly running forward and then getting hit with several cheap shots.

I realize I'm presenting a lot of criticism here, but this is going to need a lot of work before it's worth publicly unveiling. Take some time to study the level design in the original game, and playtest new segments of your level to make sure they flow together well and look nice. Level design takes some time and practice, but once you get a sense of what makes a level entertaining to play you'll notice immense improvement in your skills. I know I started getting a lot better after I calmed down and approached things slowly and carefully.

This post has been edited by Robjoe: 07 October 2011 - 05:45 PM

[KazeSenshi]

For me the B version of Knuckles is better, but if you find someway to "fix" the A version color, for me it's ok. Also if you could put in the act start animation "S3K Harder Levels" I'll love it.

Robjoe, on 07 October 2011 - 05:41 PM, said:

Alright, I downloaded this and gave it a whirl. I'm sorry to say, but... It's pretty bad.

The level design is a mess. Right off the bat, Sonic encounters an area choked with several objects, causing sprite overflow issues and lagging the game (not to mention it's a bad idea in general to just throw objects in the middle of the path when the player is moving fast).

Moreover, the level itself feels very unprofessional with the massive amount of misused tiles. You should take time to try and find tiles that fit together smoothly, as it can really go a long way to giving the level a good feeling.

The biggest area in which I'd say this needs work, however, is the difficulty factor. For instance, in the beginning of the burning segment of act 1, you throw the player into near-unavoidable spike traps constantly. Not to mention there's a bottomless pit in the green part of act 1, which is frustrating, especially for the very first level. Really, there's not much here that feels legitimately hard. It's mainly running forward and then getting hit with several cheap shots.

I realize I'm presenting a lot of criticism here, but this is going to need a lot of work before it's worth publicly unveiling. Take some time to study the level design in the original game, and playtest new segments of your level to make sure they flow together well and look nice. Level design takes some time and practice, but once you get a sense of what makes a level entertaining to play you'll notice immense improvement in your skills. I know I started getting a lot better after I calmed down and approached things slowly and carefully.

I'm don't like too traps in the middle of the path, but since this is a "harder levels" version, for me there is no problem. But personally I hate bottomless pits, in my opinion you should avoid it, mainly in the first stages.

This hacks is looking to be insane, I'm waiting more news about it.

[Ravenfreak]

Alright so I finally downloaded it and the layouts look fine in the videos, but while playing the game they seem too cheap, especially playing as Knuckles. I had to get hurt by spikes in a few places to progress forward. And when I read that Knux has to fight two bosses I thought "oh cool" but when I saw it's just the same boss on top of the other and destroying only one of them allows the signpost to load, I was kind of disappointed. :\ And like everyone said, definitely get rid of most of the spikes and go with B.

[Eduardo Knuckles]

Oh, a Harder Levels version outta the Sonic Harder Project. What a waste of your time...

Quote

but is neither sponsored/licensed/endorsed by the Harder Levels team over at SSRG;

At least you admit that we have absolutely nothing to do with this piece of dirty stuff. Unfortunately you failed by choosing a creative name for your project and by naming your project as the same name of our stuff. Having a idea based on our project is cool, but the hack's name and focus shows your complete lack of creativity.

This post has been edited by Eduardo Knuckles: 08 October 2011 - 02:43 PM

[Tamkis]

Alright, I will admit that I couldn't think of a good title for this hack. I called the hack what it is because I plan (atm) to just make harder levels by just doing basic level modifications of vanilla S3&K levels, as shown in the preview rom. But that could change, depending on how versatile chunks are in the other levels. You're right, I should change the name to something unique; I'll do that for the next update.

Hmm... I could call it S3&K Loco! In fact, that's what I'm going to call it, as it will be a continuation of S2Loco. Topic title will be updated next time I post updates in this topic, I promise .

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

I like the idea behind the hack, but honestly it's got a long way to go. Also, ditch the Chaotix sprites, they don't fit with the other characters and look really bad (in general, not just in this game)