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The Supreme Topic of 'Other' Knowledge. The stuff that simply has no other home.

#4816 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:46 PM

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Yes I do pick magazine scans at random for nuggets of information.

When the Simon Wai Sonic 2 beta was leaked, Sega went into lockdown, blaming the gaming press and refusing for a while to send out prototype builds. Instead, the press were invited to Sega's London offices every now and then and got to play things in controlled conditions.

http://retrocdn.net/...K_15.pdf&page=6

Here's the UK's Sega Force apologising for not being able to preview Streets of Rage II, Chakan or Shinobi III because of these policies. I did have a source to hand once that specifically mentioned Sonic 2 was the root cause - it's on Retro CDN somewhere but I forget where.



Just a thing.

#4817 User is offline Felik 

Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:10 AM

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Can someone enlighten me on why NGPC was powerful enough to let Sonic Pocket Adventure to have a fully functional 360 engine while Master System/Game Gear weren't.
I know that term "8 bit" doesn't really mean much but wouldn't these consoles be about the same in power?

Also why did Master System/Game Gear games universally have much nicer graphics that NGPC/NES? I guess it has to do with more colors being allowed on screen but I'd love to hear an explanation.

#4818 User is offline MainMemory 

Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:38 AM

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According to Sega Retro, the Neo Geo Pocket Color is a 16-bit system, by virtue of its Toshiba TLCS900H processor.

#4819 User is offline Atendega 

Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:55 AM

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So apparently the sound effects for the Iblis Taker in Sonic 06 are based on the same sounds that Klesk from Quake III uses.

Weeeee.


#4820 User is offline Blue Blood 

Posted 15 March 2017 - 12:47 PM

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Ha! That's really cool to hear. It's like they used the same stock sounds.

#4821 User is offline GerbilSoft 

Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:05 PM

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View PostFelik, on 15 March 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

Can someone enlighten me on why NGPC was powerful enough to let Sonic Pocket Adventure to have a fully functional 360 engine while Master System/Game Gear weren't.
I know that term "8 bit" doesn't really mean much but wouldn't these consoles be about the same in power?

Also why did Master System/Game Gear games universally have much nicer graphics that NGPC/NES? I guess it has to do with more colors being allowed on screen but I'd love to hear an explanation.

More specifically, the video hardware in the Neo Geo Pocket Color is somewhat better than SMS/GG while at the same time somewhat worse. (I don't have the full technical details on the NGPC's video processor, so I'm going with what's listed here.)

  • NGPC: 2 scroll planes, 4 colors per 8x8 tile. SMS: 1 scroll plane, 16 colors per 8x8 tile.
  • NGPC: 64 sprites onscreen, 4 colors per sprite. SMS: 64 sprites (maximum 8 per line), 16 colors per sprite

The main difference is the NGPC's two scroll planes.

Regarding color: Background tiles and sprites on SMS can use up to 16 colors (technically 15 due to transparency). Both NGPC and NES limit these to 4 colors (3 with transparency).
This post has been edited by GerbilSoft: 15 March 2017 - 01:06 PM
Reason for edit: +color

#4822 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 15 March 2017 - 04:36 PM

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It's been a while since I've turned mine on, but from what I recall, the NGPC is a very... "stable" handheld. Whereas it became a tradition in the early 90s to send all the processing power towards graphics and sound, the NGPC throws its weight behind performance, presumably so its many fighting games weren't a flickery, laggy mess.

The problem is that SNK decided to basically deliver graphics and sound comparable to the Game Boy Color, so even though it's a more powerful system than the Game Boy Color, it doesn't look like it. Like... at all. Also because you're dealing with a small screen resolution, you have to do quite a bit to really tax the hardware. Except I'm not sure they equipped it with enough memory to actually let you do that.

It's as if SNK tried to port The King of Fighters 98 to the Game Boy Color, realised they couldn't do a good job, and so made a new, comparable system, gradually adding new components until the game ran properly.


But as a handheld game console the NGPC is in a totally different league. By not having a backlight it can achieve bazillions of hours on a couple of AA batteries and it doesn't melt you hands in the process. And it can be an alarm clock! And it fits in a pocket!




Seriously it's like 30-40 hours vs. 2 or 3 on a good day for the Game Gear. And the Game Gear ate through six AAs at a time.

#4823 User is offline tokumaru 

Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:25 PM

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View PostFelik, on 15 March 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

Can someone enlighten me on why NGPC was powerful enough to let Sonic Pocket Adventure to have a fully functional 360 engine while Master System/Game Gear weren't.
I know that term "8 bit" doesn't really mean much but wouldn't these consoles be about the same in power?

The NGPC has a 16-bit CPU clocked about twice as fast as the 8-bit Z80 in the SMS/GG, so it's no surprise that the NGPC can process more complex physics. I personally believe the SMS could do a little better in this regard with some clever optimizations and maybe some look-up tables, but that's beside the point.

Quote

Also why did Master System/Game Gear games universally have much nicer graphics that NGPC/NES?

The answer is simple: the SMS and the GG use 4bpp (16-color) tiles, while the NES, GBC and NGPC all use 2bpp (4-color) tiles. This means that SMS/GG games don't need to do all the palette/attribute juggling that games on those other systems have, since they can directly address more colors.

#4824 User is offline Felik 

Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:51 AM

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Thanks guys! These questions were bothering me for a while now.

#4825 User is offline MykonosFan 

Posted 19 March 2017 - 08:43 PM

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View PostAtendega, on 15 March 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

So apparently the sound effects for the Iblis Taker in Sonic 06 are based on the same sounds that Klesk from Quake III uses.

Weeeee.



There's a rabbit enemy in an ice level in Spyro 2 that uses the first sound effect, as well. It's in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion somewhere too, I think. Always fun to hear it pop up
This post has been edited by Mykonos: 19 March 2017 - 08:43 PM

#4826 User is offline TimmiT 

Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:54 AM

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Drake's new track "KMT" samples His World
This post has been edited by TimmiT: 21 March 2017 - 07:54 AM

#4827 User is offline Overlord 

Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:16 PM

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From the music stream last night:

[12:58 AM] Overlord: Jun says that Open Your Heart was his 9th try at a theme for SA1
[12:58 AM] Overlord: There were 8 previous tries he gave up on and restarted entirely clean

The previous 8 tries he has kept in his own archives.

#4828 User is offline Ell678 

Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:15 PM

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View PostBluexBlur, on 09 December 2016 - 09:12 PM, said:

The least well known one is actually the most interesting. This version is only available on Marza's website. The difference here is that, for a few frames, Sonic's skeleton shows up when he is being electrocuted. It is unknown why this was removed. Unfortunately again, this one has the lowest quality of them all.

Posted Image


Sorry to necro-quote, but that is some creepy shit right there. I thought showing Sonic's skeleton was considered "off-limits"? That's probably why it isn't used.

#4829 User is offline GT Koopa 

Posted 23 March 2017 - 12:21 PM

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When Knuckles gets electrocuted in S&K's Hidden Palace it shows his skeleton. On a side note, look, he has toes!

In one of the unused sonic cd sprites sonic would get electrocuted and show his skeleton.

Even Super Mario in Galaxy has his own skeleton model whenever he gets electrocuted.
This post has been edited by GT Koopa: 23 March 2017 - 12:22 PM

#4830 User is offline Blue Blood 

Posted 23 March 2017 - 01:12 PM

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View PostGT Koopa, on 23 March 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:


The rules were much looser back then - look no further than the Japanese and Western Sonic dissonance. Nowadays, SEGA has very strict mandates in place. That's the reason that his colour swaps in the Smash series are all various shades of blue. And in the All Stars Racing games, SEGA told Sumo that no two players could play as the same character at the same time because "there's only one Sonic". I think that the latter in particular is pretty dumb. Who the hell even cares if two people play as the same character in multiplayer, especially online?

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