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The Supreme Topic of 'Other' Knowledge. The stuff that simply has no other home.

#16 User is offline Xenowhirl 

Posted 15 January 2007 - 08:14 PM

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QUOTE (ChimpoMcCrazypants @ Jan 13 2007, 06:37 PM) [post="159230"]Posted Image

I always thought the angled sprites (for example, the right sprite) for when Sonic would walk/run through a 360° loop were done by simply rotating the regular walking/running sprites (for example, the left sprite) at a 215° angle but ultimately found out (through a project I'm doing) that it wasn't the case. Unless what I'm saying is not true, then I should find out in that case what kind of programs are out there that can do a really good job of rotating graphics at any angle.[/quote]

Good luck finding them because there's no such thing unless you like anti-aliasing. You're going to have to rotate them yourself, and then fix up any of the mess that was caused in the process.
[/quote]
You can get pretty close with the right programs though. For example (I used lots of sprites from your spritesheet because it was within easy reach)

Posted Image
This post has been edited by Xenowhirl: 17 January 2007 - 03:49 AM

#17 User is offline Lemming 1545 

Posted 16 January 2007 - 04:56 PM

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View PostMcGuirk, on Jan 13 2007, 06:30 AM, said:

To clarify what I just said: in ICZ, you can go from act 1 to 2 seamlessly, read my original edit for details. But I have currently found no other zone capable of doing this. Can anyone explain to me why ICZ can do this?

I found a long time ago that you can go from Sonic and Tails' Angel Island Zone Act 2 backwards into Act 1, without using debug mode. And I've also found a way to get Knuckles into Sonic and Tails' Ice Cap Zone Act 2, again without debug. I might be misunderstanding, but is this the kind of thing you're talking about?

In a somewhat similar situation, you can get Knuckles into Sonic and Tails' miniboss arena in Angel Island Zone Act 1, but it will still activate Knuckes' miniboss in the room below. The missiles it fires will come up through the floor, and if memory serves me correctly, they'll impact on the floor of the room you're in, rather than going back through it again and hitting the floor of the room the miniboss is in.

#18 User is offline McGuirk 

Posted 16 January 2007 - 06:31 PM

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Quote

I found a long time ago that you can go from Sonic and Tails' Angel Island Zone Act 2 backwards into Act 1, without using debug mode. And I've also found a way to get Knuckles into Sonic and Tails' Ice Cap Zone Act 2, again without debug. I might be misunderstanding, but is this the kind of thing you're talking about?


Not really. I meant that the level would load into act 2 without a boss or mini-title screen thing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But uh, how do you do this?:

Quote

I found a long time ago that you can go from Sonic and Tails' Angel Island Zone Act 2 backwards into Act 1


That's cool, I wanna do it :P

#19 User is offline Lemming 1545 

Posted 16 January 2007 - 08:18 PM

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It usually takes quite a few tries to pull off, and to be fair, I've only ever done it on Sonic & Knuckles Collection for the PC (never tried on a Genesis). But all you have to do is go through the first pipe at the very start of Act 2, then go back through the other way, so that it spits you out into the room that doubles as both the miniboss arena and the first area of Act 2. Just keep rolling once you come out the pipe, and sometimes it'll just ignore the scroll lock and let you go right back into Act 1, which will still contain any uncollected rings and monitors. You can go all the way through Act 1 in reverse, up to the area where you first see the miniboss and it sets everything ablaze, but then another scroll lock prevents you from going back down the tree trunk and everything.

#20 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 16 January 2007 - 11:27 PM

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View PostLemming 1545, on Jan 16 2007, 05:18 PM, said:

It usually takes quite a few tries to pull off, and to be fair, I've only ever done it on Sonic & Knuckles Collection for the PC (never tried on a Genesis). But all you have to do is go through the first pipe at the very start of Act 2, then go back through the other way, so that it spits you out into the room that doubles as both the miniboss arena and the first area of Act 2. Just keep rolling once you come out the pipe, and sometimes it'll just ignore the scroll lock and let you go right back into Act 1, which will still contain any uncollected rings and monitors. You can go all the way through Act 1 in reverse, up to the area where you first see the miniboss and it sets everything ablaze, but then another scroll lock prevents you from going back down the tree trunk and everything.


Which in reality isn't even there anymore because when the level is set on fire, it technically starts a new act/level, so you go from whatever location you were in act 1 where the level is set on fire back to the beginning address. While you appear in the same place, you aren't (Act 2 doesn't even have the tiles for that tree trunk thing stored anywhere)

This is what I liked about Sonic 3 and Knuckles. There was so much variety in the levels which made each act interesting. Sonic 2 was fun, but it lacked the same variety that S3&K had.

#21 User is offline x64 

Posted 17 January 2007 - 02:32 AM

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Yes. Act 2 of every zone in sonic 3, except for AIZ and ICZ, starts either the second the end-of-level text appears, or the second the transparent title card appears.

Angel Island Zone Act 2 starts when the midway boss sets everything ablaze. Even though the title card says Angel Island Zone Act 1 until you defeat the Act 1 boss.

Ice Cap Zone Act 2 starts when you go through the tunnel on the way to the Act 1 boss (for sonic and tails) as stated before. It happens as soon as that block of ice slams down behind sonic and tails.

#22 User is offline Pinkerton 

Posted 17 January 2007 - 05:46 PM

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View Postalexis, on Jan 17 2007, 01:32 AM, said:

Yes. Act 2 of every zone in sonic 3, except for AIZ and ICZ, starts either the second the end-of-level text appears, or the second the transparent title card appears.

Angel Island Zone Act 2 starts when the midway boss sets everything ablaze. Even though the title card says Angel Island Zone Act 1 until you defeat the Act 1 boss.

If you need anymore proof, go start a special stage in Act 1 after everything is on fire. Act 2 music will play when you're done.

#23 User is offline Mystical Ninja 

Posted 17 January 2007 - 06:09 PM

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Since this is a supposed to be a topic for "other" discoveries, and because I can't think of anything else to post, I just feel the need to repost this Chaotix discovery from over a year ago.

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?sho...ic=6008&hl=

Myself, on Dec 11, 2005, 06:18 PM, said:

Just a few minutes ago, I was playing Knuckles' Chaotix with the level select and debug codes. Then, I played through the third Introduction stage, and at the end, something strange happened. Rather than Knuckles and Mighty having their normal "waiting" animations, they ended up like this. Knuckles was using Wechnia's waiting animation (which is basically the "Tag-hold" sprites), and Mighty was using what would've been Sonic's "spring" pose in Sonic Crackers.

Posted Image


From using that method, I ended up finding this unused Vector sprite:

Posted Image

Also, there's a chance that those Charmy sprites in the topic weren't used, but it hasn't been confirmed yet (since they're miscolored and have the arms missing).
This post has been edited by Mystical Ninja: 05 April 2007 - 10:41 PM

#24 User is offline Xkeeper 

Posted 18 January 2007 - 04:52 AM

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View PostDark Sonic, on Jan 16 2007, 08:27 PM, said:

View PostLemming 1545, on Jan 16 2007, 05:18 PM, said:

It usually takes quite a few tries to pull off, and to be fair, I've only ever done it on Sonic & Knuckles Collection for the PC (never tried on a Genesis). But all you have to do is go through the first pipe at the very start of Act 2, then go back through the other way, so that it spits you out into the room that doubles as both the miniboss arena and the first area of Act 2.


Which in reality isn't even there anymore because when the level is set on fire, it technically starts a new act/level, so you go from whatever location you were in act 1 where the level is set on fire back to the beginning address. While you appear in the same place, you aren't (Act 2 doesn't even have the tiles for that tree trunk thing stored anywhere)

It's entirely possible that the PC version of this game didn't differentiate between the acts, which woul dlead one to believe that this is, indeed, very possible. Remember -- he's talking about the PC version, not the Genesis one.

Perhaps someone should verify it? I wouldn't know where to start on finding S&K for the PC, though.

#25 User is offline Mr. Ksoft 

Posted 18 January 2007 - 06:46 AM

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View PostXkeeper, on Jan 18 2007, 03:52 AM, said:

View PostDark Sonic, on Jan 16 2007, 08:27 PM, said:

View PostLemming 1545, on Jan 16 2007, 05:18 PM, said:

It usually takes quite a few tries to pull off, and to be fair, I've only ever done it on Sonic & Knuckles Collection for the PC (never tried on a Genesis). But all you have to do is go through the first pipe at the very start of Act 2, then go back through the other way, so that it spits you out into the room that doubles as both the miniboss arena and the first area of Act 2.


Which in reality isn't even there anymore because when the level is set on fire, it technically starts a new act/level, so you go from whatever location you were in act 1 where the level is set on fire back to the beginning address. While you appear in the same place, you aren't (Act 2 doesn't even have the tiles for that tree trunk thing stored anywhere)

It's entirely possible that the PC version of this game didn't differentiate between the acts, which woul dlead one to believe that this is, indeed, very possible. Remember -- he's talking about the PC version, not the Genesis one.

Perhaps someone should verify it? I wouldn't know where to start on finding S&K for the PC, though.


There's no reason it should be any different in the PC version. The PC version is nothing but an emulator and a modified S3K ROM. (Modified only so the computer plays the MIDI music).

#26 User is offline TapamN 

Posted 18 January 2007 - 09:49 AM

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I have a save state on another computer where, as Tails, you can move between the second half of AIZ act 1 and AIZ act 2. IIRC, it's plain Sonic 3. I'll try to upload it later.

#27 User is offline Kampfer 

Posted 18 January 2007 - 03:36 PM

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^I remember that. I don't remember how it is done, but I've done it on a few occasions back on my old genesis. I belive it has sometign to do with going into the special stage and when you come back out, the screen lock is somehow gone. I could be wrong.

#28 User is offline Lemming 1545 

Posted 18 January 2007 - 05:59 PM

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View PostDark Sonic, on Jan 16 2007, 11:27 PM, said:

when the level is set on fire, it technically starts a new act/level, so you go from whatever location you were in act 1 where the level is set on fire back to the beginning address. While you appear in the same place, you aren't (Act 2 doesn't even have the tiles for that tree trunk thing stored anywhere)

Really? Hm, I never thought about that before, but it makes sense. So that's probably why it's possible to break back into "Act 1," huh? Because it's really still part of Act 2?

#29 User is offline Tweaker 

Posted 18 January 2007 - 06:04 PM

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View PostLemming 1545, on Jan 18 2007, 05:59 PM, said:

View PostDark Sonic, on Jan 16 2007, 11:27 PM, said:

when the level is set on fire, it technically starts a new act/level, so you go from whatever location you were in act 1 where the level is set on fire back to the beginning address. While you appear in the same place, you aren't (Act 2 doesn't even have the tiles for that tree trunk thing stored anywhere)

Really? Hm, I never thought about that before, but it makes sense. So that's probably why it's possible to break back into "Act 1," huh? Because it's really still part of Act 2?

Yeah - the levels work by changing layouts dynamically while the screen is still drawn. They make this unnoticable by taking the end of the first act's layout, and making it the very beginning of the second act's layout. It's a simple concept, but it works brilliantly.

#30 User is offline Bowser 

Posted 18 January 2007 - 06:04 PM

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Yeah, that is true. When the fire comes about, I think that's act 2 already started, though On level select, I think you start away from where you'd fight the miniboss, due to the continue-post.

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