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The center of Angel Island

#16 User is offline Overlord 

Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:23 PM

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To be fair, it doesn't matter WHERE Flying Battery is. The clue's in the title - it can fly from wherever it needs to be on the map TO wherever it needs to be to leave it, while Sonic is running around trashing robots.

#17 User is offline DigitalDuck 

Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:06 PM

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View PostOverlord, on 17 March 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

To be fair, it doesn't matter WHERE Flying Battery is. The clue's in the title - it can fly from wherever it needs to be on the map TO wherever it needs to be to leave it, while Sonic is running around trashing robots.


It does matter where it is in the level order, though - the final game's level order requires Carnival Night and Ice Cap to be adjacent, but with the Flying Battery inserted between them this is no longer the case; instead Mushroom Hill and Sandopolis must be adjacent.

#18 User is offline BlackHole 

Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:13 PM

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I do wonder what the intended method of getting from Mushroom Valley to Sandopolis was. S3Complete has it so Sonic's blown into the air, was that based on anything in the data? I know Mushroom Valley and Sandopolis were listed in Sonic 3 alone, so...

#19 User is offline Sparks 

Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:16 PM

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I always figured the mountains in Carnival Nights background were the mountains seen at the beginning of Ice Cap 1, but that's just me. Mushroom Hill to Sandopolis is a head scratcher though.

#20 User is offline Azu 

Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:43 PM

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I put Carnival Night at the base of the mountain seeing as your shot out of a cannon towards the caps of Ice Cap.

#21 User is offline Sir_mihael 

Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:19 PM

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I might have a go at sketching an above-view map later this eve to go along with the side view we've got at the moment. Might help maybe. (or not, but whatever). Also, when do we scratch our heads a bit more by throwing SA1's Angel Island Ice Cap/Red Mountain layout into the mix?

#22 User is offline ultima espio 

Posted 19 March 2017 - 04:23 PM

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I'd have Mushroom Hill closer to Launch Base, remember that Knuckles fell into the zone, so it must be close by.

#23 User is offline Spanner 

Posted 19 March 2017 - 04:43 PM

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View PostMr Lange, on 16 March 2017 - 03:47 PM, said:

Edited with more likely arrangement.

Posted Image

I always get a kick out of Flying Battery resembling a Duracell battery. Someone needs to actually put batteries in that zone. Maybe Sonic Mania will actually deliver on that...

#24 User is offline Mr Lange 

Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:49 PM

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Made a new map, clean and consistent.
First one is just a map of the zones, second one includes the path of the games. Blue is Sonic 3, red is Sonic and Knuckles.

There's some leeway with these locations. Flying Battery must be descending and ascending. Sky Sanctuary may be a lot lower. Carnival Night and Ice Cap may be lower. Lava Reef and Hidden Palace could be below "sea level" but it seems more likely to me that they're in the upper interior. The pyramid of Sandopolis is on a higher shelf, thus Lava Reef may be directly below it, and the Death Egg is visible just above Hidden Palace in an open crater.
Plenty of room for the competition zones. Azure Lake could be on the left end where the lake nestled in the mountains is. Desert Palace obviously just below Sandopolis. Balloon Park somewhere near Carnival Night. Endless Mine in the interior possibly near Lava Reef or below "sea level". Chrome Gadget could be anywhere, possibly towards the right or left end behind the mountains.

Posted Image

Posted Image
This post has been edited by Mr Lange: 20 March 2017 - 07:50 PM

#25 User is offline MarkeyJester 

Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:31 PM

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That's a pretty decent map, everything seems to fit into its place.

However, are we sure that Angle Island Zone isn't actually where we think Mushroom Hill Zone is? There's a waterfall next to those trees, it could actually be Angle Island Zone.

Another possibility, according to this video here at around 3:16, Sonic and Tails are flying out to the left of the island, and at 3:28 is a scene of knuckles in a part of the level, where you can see them flying out to the left which is also the left (and start) of the level, so I'd argue that Angle Island is on the left of the island, not on the right.



Interestingly, you can also see the background at 3:28 drifting down slowly as the island is rising, almost as if it's not connected =S (probably an oversight)...

#26 User is offline Mr Lange 

Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:46 PM

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Come to think of it, you could flip the whole mess around horizontally and the layout could still be consistent, since the two areas marked Marble Garden and Launch Base can be interpreted as either. It's hard to say; the area near the bottom right marked Mushroom Hill resembles a forest if anything. This leads into Sandopolis which has the pyramid on the left side. The game's progression matches the geography in either direction of the island (Marble Garden above the falls where Hydrocity might be, Mushroom Hill could be the foliage area where Hidden Palace is marked). I would say, for the sake of consistency, it might be best to attempt to fit the map from left to right. I should mention I was basing this on the map this thread started with in an attempt to "correct" it based on its idea. I'll take a crack at a reverse layout.

#27 User is offline MarkeyJester 

Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:12 PM

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Yeah, I think you're right.

An additional note I'd like to add before I give this a rest, is that from HCZ to MGZ, they are blasted via a water blast into the air. Likewise with MHZ to Sandopolis via FBZ (which is a flying ship), additionally with CNZ to ICZ where a cannon was used. In all cases, the characters were blastes or flown into the air, they could have gone a really far distance, therefore, those levels don't necessarily need to be next to each other on the map, right? You could argue Sandopolis being next to Mushroom because of the original level order, but then I'd argue that the island map as we see it, wasn't seen until Sonic & Knuckles (after the level order was arranged differently), so it was likely designed after the order correction, with FBZ in mind.

#28 User is offline Skyler 

Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:14 AM

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It was brought up before, but Launch Base and Mushroom Hill are probably close together going by Knuckles' level transition.

#29 User is offline DigitalDuck 

Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:28 AM

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View PostMarkeyJester, on 20 March 2017 - 09:12 PM, said:

You could argue Sandopolis being next to Mushroom because of the original level order, but then I'd argue that the island map as we see it, wasn't seen until Sonic & Knuckles (after the level order was arranged differently), so it was likely designed after the order correction, with FBZ in mind.


Wasn't it on the Sonic 3 title screen?

#30 User is offline BlackHole 

Posted 22 March 2017 - 05:22 AM

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View PostDigitalDuck, on 21 March 2017 - 06:28 AM, said:

View PostMarkeyJester, on 20 March 2017 - 09:12 PM, said:

You could argue Sandopolis being next to Mushroom because of the original level order, but then I'd argue that the island map as we see it, wasn't seen until Sonic & Knuckles (after the level order was arranged differently), so it was likely designed after the order correction, with FBZ in mind.


Wasn't it on the Sonic 3 title screen?

No, it's three tall mountains and some foliage.

Posted Image
(Sonic 3 Complete only because it gives us a better, unobstructed view)

So unless we're supposed to take this as Angel Island being submerged to the point that a good chunk of the mainland is underwater...

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