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"Dust Hill" meaning researched Warning: Long and huge post!

#16 User is offline Frigidare 

Posted 08 September 2004 - 04:30 PM

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My theory:

Date 1: Dust Hill created.
Date 2: Dust Hill deleted, but level select info (text and pointer) are unchanged.
Date 3: Mystic Cave goes into the same level ID, but level select info goes unchanged.
Date 4: Level Select text is changed for final release.

The only reason the game has a level select is to make testing easier. If the tester knew that Dust Hill took him to Mystic Cave, s/he isn't going to complain.

#17 User is offline Qjimbo 

Posted 08 September 2004 - 04:36 PM

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MasterEmerald, on Sep 8 2004, 04:30 PM, said:

My theory:

Date 1: Dust Hill created.
Date 2: Dust Hill deleted, but level select info (text and pointer) are unchanged.
Date 3: Mystic Cave goes into the same level ID, but level select info goes unchanged.
Date 4: Level Select text is changed for final release.

The only reason the game has a level select is to make testing easier. If the tester knew that Dust Hill took him to Mystic Cave, s/he isn't going to complain.

And noone can disprove or prove that because the main 2 events happen before the date of our beta. What really happened is simply an unfilled grey area.
This post has been edited by QJimbo: 08 September 2004 - 04:37 PM

#18 User is offline Drakmyth 

Posted 08 September 2004 - 04:40 PM

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So we get together a great angry mob and storm Sega!! :evil: God, I've always wanted to do that.

#19 User is offline Sonic Hachelle-Bee 

Posted 08 September 2004 - 04:53 PM

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Since others post their theories about the desert level anyway, I will post my mine, very understandable when you are a game developper I think:

First, this is obvious that this sand/snow level with a palette change existed, at an early stage than our beta. When you start writing a game, with the storyboard, you plan some levels you will make for the game, without chosing their definitive names. Some levels were planned at start: a Green Hill level (like Sonic 1 one), a Neo Green Hill (something a bit different than a Green Hill), an Hill Top level (at the top of a mountain, trough clouds), a Wood level (lost in a forest), a Casino level (at night, you usually go to casino at night), a Chemical Plant level (a plant with some odd substances), an hidden level (called Hidden Palace because this is a beautiful level with some gems), a Metropolis level (like the famous film Metropolis by Fritz Lang in 1927), a sky fortress level (a fortress in the sky), a death egg level (the last one, like Star Wars films), a sand/snow level, and then a city level (maybe with a catastrophe, we don't know...). This is where my theory start...

I think the cave level was not planned at start (12 levels planned already). Having 13 levels in a game is kinda odd...All level names under the beta were descriptive and not definitive, developpers certainly don't care so much about their names at this point. When you compare a desert with a snowy mountain, you can't find matches with the relief, or with the weather, or vegetables. The only thing matching is this idea of dust coming from the sand and the powdery snow. Then, why not call it Dust....Hill at start for developpers (Like Green Hill, Neo Green Hill, Hill Top, Whateveryouwant Hill)?

Now, we are highly thinking that Genocide City was out of the game developpement before sand/snow level. In fact, Wood zone was cut pretty early too, after the sand/snow level, and Brenda Ross remember it very well. BR can't remember GCZ (as well for Craig Stitt), because she never saw this level! It was cut before her level...So why they keep GCZ under the level select and not the sand/snow level? I think every levels planned at start are under this level select, and the cave level is again in an early developpement stage in our beta (2, 3 sprites and some tiles), not like the others not cutted out. Then, I think Dust Hill was the sand/snow level slot, and when they cut it from the game, planning another cave level instead, they put the cave level in this slot (instead of creating a new one, and Dust Hill is better for a cave level than Wood or Genocide City). They changed the developpement name after to Mystic Cave (like some others), before the release of Sonic 2 in 1992.

That's all what I think about this sand/snow level. This is 99% false for sure, but this maybe 99% true, unfortunately we will never know...
:(

EDIT: In my first sentence, I mean existed on the paper at least.
This post has been edited by Sonic Hachelle-Bee: 08 September 2004 - 04:59 PM

#20 User is offline 8-Bit Dragon 

Posted 08 September 2004 - 05:10 PM

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Drakmyth, on Sep 8 2004, 04:40 PM, said:

So we get together a great angry mob and storm Sega!! :evil: God, I've always wanted to do that.

I agree. We can get some pitchforks and torches to realy scare the shit (or better yet alpha) out of them. Hell, while we're at it, grab a Sonic Adventure 3 beta :D
This post has been edited by 8-Bit Dragon: 08 September 2004 - 05:15 PM

#21 User is offline voice 

Posted 08 September 2004 - 05:46 PM

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Quote

I agree. We can get some pitchforks and torches to realy scare the shit (or better yet alpha) out of them. Hell, while we're at it, grab a Sonic Adventure 3 beta :D


Woohoo! *Dueling banjos plays in the background* times to get me's pitchfork and hold a good ol' fashion mobing! hyuck hyuck! :lol:

#22 User is offline 8-Bit Dragon 

Posted 08 September 2004 - 06:06 PM

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voice, on Sep 8 2004, 05:46 PM, said:

Quote

I agree. We can get some pitchforks and torches to realy scare the shit (or better yet alpha) out of them. Hell, while we're at it, grab a Sonic Adventure 3 beta :D


Woohoo! *Dueling banjos plays in the background* times to get me's pitchfork and hold a good ol' fashion mobing! hyuck hyuck! :lol:

*Parks airboat nearby and loads shotgun* I be ready when you fellers are. :D

Seriously though, someone should go to Sega and be like "Where is Dust Hill you bitches" and hope that they answer back. Even if you were nice, they would be like "We don't have it anymore" which could be BS. People don't just build levels (IF they did) and tiles and just delete them because they weren't so great, its a waste of work and surely they would have saved them (again IF they built the levels) for a future game.

#23 User is offline Drakmyth 

Posted 08 September 2004 - 06:10 PM

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I doubt they would still have the tiles for a specific level but I know that I never get rid of any beta versions of games I make. I bet they have a vault with long lost betas by the boatloads there.

#24 User is offline voice 

Posted 08 September 2004 - 06:18 PM

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Not many computer companies delete old data unless its extremely incomplete. But I think its diffrent with video game companys so they could sorta make a scrap book

"And heres Sonic 2 v0.2, it was sooooo cute back then!" :P

#25 User is offline Qjimbo 

  Posted 10 September 2004 - 06:48 AM

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Oh, another bit of evidence about the Desert Zone that I've just remembered, is that when you apply S2Beta Level Slot 03's palette to that Desert Zone Mag pic, it looks good. None of the other palettes on the beta work with that screenshot very well. So it's possible that Level 03 was the Desert Zone.

I'm sure SEGA still have all that development stuff from years ago, and I'd like to think that they kept all the old pre-release versions in a vault somewhere.

#26 User is offline Frigidare 

Posted 10 September 2004 - 12:01 PM

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QJimbo, on Sep 10 2004, 12:48 PM, said:

I'm sure SEGA still have all that development stuff from years ago, and I'd like to think that they kept all the old pre-release versions in a vault somewhere.

Nobody would hunt through them for us. We could go to Sega of somewhere and ask them (yes, physically go there) but I doubt it would produce anything.

#27 User is offline Cinossu 

Posted 10 September 2004 - 03:39 PM

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QJimbo, on Sep 10 2004, 06:48 AM, said:

Oh, another bit of evidence about the Desert Zone that I've just remembered, is that when you apply S2Beta Level Slot 03's palette to that Desert Zone Mag pic, it looks good. None of the other palettes on the beta work with that screenshot very well. So it's possible that Level 03 was the Desert Zone.

I'm sure SEGA still have all that development stuff from years ago, and I'd like to think that they kept all the old pre-release versions in a vault somewhere.

...you do know that palette is just Green Hill (or Emerald Hill in the final)?

#28 User is offline Drakmyth 

Posted 10 September 2004 - 03:50 PM

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Of course no one would help us. That's why we have to go all Mission: Impossible on them. :D

#29 User is offline Qjimbo 

Posted 10 September 2004 - 06:22 PM

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Cinossu, on Sep 10 2004, 03:39 PM, said:

QJimbo, on Sep 10 2004, 06:48 AM, said:

Oh, another bit of evidence about the Desert Zone that I've just remembered, is that when you apply S2Beta Level Slot 03's palette to that Desert Zone Mag pic, it looks good. None of the other palettes on the beta work with that screenshot very well. So it's possible that Level 03 was the Desert Zone.

I'm sure SEGA still have all that development stuff from years ago, and I'd like to think that they kept all the old pre-release versions in a vault somewhere.

...you do know that palette is just Green Hill (or Emerald Hill in the final)?

Seriously?! But why doesn't the Green Hill palette in the beta work with the Desert Zone pic? Or maybe it does, I've never actually tried it, I just read about it on SoSTH years ago ^^
Thanks for pointing that out anyway :)

#30 User is offline Quickman 

Posted 11 September 2004 - 09:02 AM

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MasterEmerald, on Sep 8 2004, 09:30 PM, said:

My theory:

Date 1: Dust Hill created.
Date 2: Dust Hill deleted, but level select info (text and pointer) are unchanged.
Date 3: Mystic Cave goes into the same level ID, but level select info goes unchanged.
Date 4: Level Select text is changed for final release.

No evidence to support claim. Evidence suggests that the desert zone was never a level, merely art, and Mystic Cave was once Dust Hill, nothing more.

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