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The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread Latest Update: Main Site Updated (CSZ)

#3646 User is offline Scartillery 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:46 PM

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QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jul 17 2010, 11:36 PM)
QUOTE (Scartillery @ Jul 17 2010, 05:32 PM)
What SEGA need to do is form a "Retro Studios" Knock-off; something like "Classic Team".

That's what they think they've done with Dimps... with hilarious results.

They should do it with Prope.
For obvious reasons.
This post has been edited by Scartillery: 17 July 2010 - 05:47 PM

#3647 User is offline 0r4ng3 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:46 PM

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QUOTE (Scartillery @ Jul 17 2010, 11:32 PM)
QUOTE (0r4ng3 @ Jul 17 2010, 11:10 PM)
Giving SOA to Sonic right now would bring more problems then solve them. SOA right now, is nothing, and has no power whatsoever to do anything about it. Hiring more people is out of the question, as if complete outliers would have a clear grasp of what the series is, or better, what the classic fans think the series should return to. Moving the team there would solve nothing either, as Sonic Team USA had what, two decent games, that are nothing of what Sonic 4 should be? The series coming to the west won't magically fix anything, programmers with a clue will. Sonic 2 and 3 & Knuckles were great because of the people behind it, not because they were made in US soil. This conversation sounds like every game reviewer that thinks 2D = good, 3D = bad for Sonic. One thing has nothing to do with other.


Yes. SoJ are money-minded. No questions there.
However, simply shoving Sonic 4 down to the US won't help. SoA was all but liquidated in favor of SEGA West/Europe.

Yuji Naka formed Sonic Team USA, partly to penetrate the western audience more, and partly because it gave him more freedom as a programmer and developer.
Yuji Naka then left a few years after Sonic Team USA was merged with Sonic Team Japan.
I assume this is because of lack of freedom. Naka himself said he left, because he was so high up the food chain, that he was no longer allowed a direct hand in the programming.

SoJ's lack of concern was a problem.
It is still a problem, but with the formation of SEGA West, things may change. I honestly hope SoJ just hand over the Hedgehog to the people who are, and give them a very large budget.
initially it won't produce such a high profit, because of scepticism from gamers and high production values, but eventually, after you've once again established that Sonic is once again amoung the Gods of platforming, you'll start printing money as fast as Nintendo. Not only because unknowing parents buy the game, but because gamers in general will buy the games because they will be worth their time.

However, Sonic 4 shouldn't receive such massive budgets nor attention.
What SEGA need to do is form a "Retro Studios" Knock-off; something like "Classic Team". They can either do this by hiring new blood, either from Uni's or diverting staff from other divisions of Sonic Team. Or they could just get Prope to handle said games, seeing as SEGA owns a part of it (that way Naka can actually program, and he'll enjoy it more).

I still maintain 3D games deserve more attention, because Sonic needs to be good in 3D. He's already good in 2D, even his worst 2D games are better than some of the 3D ones and can't even be called "bad".


You still haven't said how changing office locations will help in anything. All you're doing is speculating about a supposed Classic Team, which could be the best big shit after Dimps for all you know.

#3648 User is offline Scartillery 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:50 PM

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QUOTE (0r4ng3 @ Jul 17 2010, 11:46 PM)
You still haven't said how changing office locations will help in anything. All you're doing is speculating about a supposed Classic Team, which could be the best big shit after Dimps for all you know.

Thats for them to organise. I'm just throwing out a suggestion here. It could work if they get the right people involved, in the right place.
They could somehow get Prope to do it, like I said (Never going to happen, but its a viable option seeing as SEGA own a part of the company). More importantly, they need the right programmers.
The visuals are dated, but they aren't really that much of a problem, because a lot of people do like them.

#3649 User is offline Azookara 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:54 PM

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QUOTE (Scartillery @ Jul 17 2010, 05:46 PM)
QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jul 17 2010, 11:36 PM)
QUOTE (Scartillery @ Jul 17 2010, 05:32 PM)
What SEGA need to do is form a "Retro Studios" Knock-off; something like "Classic Team".

That's what they think they've done with Dimps... with hilarious results.

They should do it with Prope.
For obvious reasons.

No. They should be making this a Prope and Artoon collaboration project, for even more obvious reasons. colbert.png

Seriously, Oshima's art style with Naka's programming. It must be done. Maybe hire Yasuhara as level designer again and we're good to go.

The dream team, man.

#3650 User is offline Solaris Paradox 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:56 PM

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It doesn't matter what country the developers live and work in (although getting to know your audience's culture certainly helps, and such interaction is why Casino Night Zone even exists at all), as much as it matters who's pulling the strings—assigning duties, allotting budget and resources, and so on, and so forth.

Obviously, if a division with more of a stake in the success of a project is in charge of that stuff, the chances of those decisions being made correctly increase—although there's still the risk of management being comprised of dolts and blockheads, but y'know, such is life.

I wonder what would happen if SEGA Europe was in charge of that at this point, actually. Not in a positive way, per se—Mike Hayes's idea of how the franchise should work, while having certain logical merits, seems a touch compartmentalized, if that makes any sense.

But here we are talking generic Sonic Team organization, slowly but surely drifting further and further away from the actual topic of the thread...

#3651 User is offline Chimpo 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:57 PM

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Fuck that, get some Swedens involved who've played the games to death.



#3652 User is offline Scartillery 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:57 PM

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QUOTE (Azukara @ Jul 17 2010, 11:54 PM)
QUOTE (Scartillery @ Jul 17 2010, 05:46 PM)
QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jul 17 2010, 11:36 PM)
QUOTE (Scartillery @ Jul 17 2010, 05:32 PM)
What SEGA need to do is form a "Retro Studios" Knock-off; something like "Classic Team".

That's what they think they've done with Dimps... with hilarious results.

They should do it with Prope.
For obvious reasons.

No. They should be making this a Prope and Artoon collaboration project, for even more obvious reasons. colbert.png

Seriously, Oshima's art style with Naka's programming. It must be done. Maybe hire Yasuhara as level designer again and we're good to go.

The dream team, man.


Thats it!!!
My good man you've even come up with a name!

Sonic Dream Team. Only for Classic Styled games and 2D handhelds. Fuck Dimps.

#3653 User is offline Deef 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 06:19 PM

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I love how I leave this board for a few months, come back, and everyone's so harmoniously negative.
Good work guys.

Btw, all that feedback they talk about before the delay... that was mainly from the leaks right? If that's true, it's hilarious. It's literally like they got caught red handed, apologised and tail-between-legs took it back to the kitchen to fix what they were just about to dish up.
This post has been edited by Deef: 17 July 2010 - 06:19 PM

#3654 User is offline Dude 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 06:25 PM

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QUOTE (Deef @ Jul 17 2010, 07:19 PM)
Btw, all that feedback they talk about before the delay... that was mainly from the leaks right? If that's true, it's hilarious. It's literally like they got caught red handed, apologised and tail-between-legs took it back to the kitchen to fix what they were just about to dish up.


That's exactly what happened. What everyone is debating now is how 'fixed' it is going to be. We're preparing for the worst and hoping for the best, although given their track record with product quality, there's really only a slim chance this will be the next classic they say it will be.

#3655 User is offline Wing 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 06:47 PM

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QUOTE (Dude @ Jul 17 2010, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE (Deef @ Jul 17 2010, 07:19 PM)
Btw, all that feedback they talk about before the delay... that was mainly from the leaks right? If that's true, it's hilarious. It's literally like they got caught red handed, apologised and tail-between-legs took it back to the kitchen to fix what they were just about to dish up.


That's exactly what happened. What everyone is debating now is how 'fixed' it is going to be. We're preparing for the worst and hoping for the best, although given their track record with product quality, there's really only a slim chance this will be the next classic they say it will be.

Dimps hasn't had bad product quality, per se- it's just that they haven't attempted to make a "classic" styled game in the past. Nor have they ever worked on something with this much hype surrounding it.
Sonic Rush wasn't necessarily a bad game, it was just nothing like what 2D Sonic games had been previously known to be. However, Sonic UnWiished was known to be a cheap cash in from the very beginning.
That said, I'm not really surprised Sonic Team themselves aren't the ones working on this. Think of it this way:
Sonic 4 is going to be praised by reviewers just because of its nature. How good of a sequel it is doesn't really matter.
Sonic Colors, however, is a 3D Sonic game. Because of this, SEGA has to make sure the game is actually good for it to get good reception, and in turn, good sales.
This can also be considered a way to hype the 20th Anniversary game, in which a fuckton of money will undoubtedly be used to make. If Sonic Colors convinces people that 3D Sonic games are finally rising in quality, the 20th Anniversary game will likely get better sales.

Of course, I could just be reading too deep into this, and SEGA just got whoever was on hand to do Sonic 4. v.png

#3656 User is offline Scartillery 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 06:50 PM

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QUOTE (Wing @ Jul 18 2010, 12:47 AM)
QUOTE (Dude @ Jul 17 2010, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE (Deef @ Jul 17 2010, 07:19 PM)
Btw, all that feedback they talk about before the delay... that was mainly from the leaks right? If that's true, it's hilarious. It's literally like they got caught red handed, apologised and tail-between-legs took it back to the kitchen to fix what they were just about to dish up.


That's exactly what happened. What everyone is debating now is how 'fixed' it is going to be. We're preparing for the worst and hoping for the best, although given their track record with product quality, there's really only a slim chance this will be the next classic they say it will be.

Dimps hasn't had bad product quality, per se- it's just that they haven't attempted to make a "classic" styled game in the past. Nor have they ever worked on something with this much hype surrounding it.
Sonic Rush wasn't necessarily a bad game, it was just nothing like what 2D Sonic games had been previously known to be. However, Sonic UnWiished was known to be a cheap cash in from the very beginning.
That said, I'm not really surprised Sonic Team themselves aren't the ones working on this. Think of it this way:
Sonic 4 is going to be praised by reviewers just because of its nature. How good of a sequel it is doesn't really matter.
Sonic Colors, however, is a 3D Sonic game. Because of this, SEGA has to make sure the game is actually good for it to get good reception, and in turn, good sales.
This can also be considered a way to hype the 20th Anniversary game, in which a fuckton of money will undoubtedly be used to make. If Sonic Colors convinces people that 3D Sonic games are finally rising in quality, the 20th Anniversary game will likely get better sales.

Of course, I could just be reading too deep into this, and SEGA just got whoever was on hand to do Sonic 4. v.png

QFT...that sounds about right.
They don't need to convince people that Sonic is good in 2D. Most people love 2D Sonic games already.
They DO need to convince that 3D Sonic games are good now.
This post has been edited by Scartillery: 17 July 2010 - 06:50 PM

#3657 User is offline Diablohead 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 07:06 PM

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And then they chuck it all away with the abortion we like to call the Sonic Adventure XBLA port of sub HD 30fps failure.

#3658 User is offline Chimpo 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 08:08 PM

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WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING I TRASHED 5 MINUTES AGO?!

#3659 User is offline Scartillery 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 08:22 PM

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QUOTE (Chimpo @ Jul 18 2010, 02:08 AM)
WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING I TRASHED 5 MINUTES AGO?!

Sorry about this.
I wasn't intending for a fight to break out.
Guess I should have nipped it in the bud eh?

Anyways.

As I've said many a time:

As Sonic 4, this game is probably not very good. However it has to potential to be, if done correctly. I'm currently riding on this potential. The negativity has set my expectations low this time around, so I'll be glad if I'm pleasantly surprised.

I think though, that as a standalone game, this would be considered pretty solid. Naming issues?
Maybe, but you can't blame a company for using a name that attracts people in great numbers. They need sales.

As to the misconceptions regarding the direction of the game (What with all the familiar stage designs). This game should have been called Sonic 4: Prologue.

Graphics are decent, but not great. Some like them, others do not.

Soundtrack some songs, like Mad Gear Act 1, are awesome. Others, like Boss 2 and Final Boss....not so much. Hit and miss really. I get the sense that Senoue wasn't allowed to use proper instruments and was forced to use crappy synth, thus the overall, incomplete feel to the soundtrack.

#3660 User is offline Chimpo 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 09:18 PM

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FYI, complaining about the state of the thread isn't helping either. If you find it repulsive, I would love if you didn't post here at all.

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