[Scarred Sun]

You know, if all you plan to do is be dicks to each other for pages upon pages, I may as well just close this thread.

[Mirai]

Following on from my previous post about 50 pages before, I'm pleased that you can finally speed past the finish and off the screen now, I'm puzzled as to why that wasn't there in the beginning, but its there now
Seeing this http://www.tssznews.com/2010/09/24/only-so...ys-ken-balough/
has made me just give a shout out to RubyEclipse:
I hope you've seen my previous post on my thoughts on Episode 1, and SOnic 4 as a whole, and I've bought 2000 points especially so it covers any cost of what Sonic 4 may be
Just for Episode II, I do hope that the bosses are totally original. Thinking as to how Sonic 1 to 3 was. It got from basic bosses, to Sonic 2 where Robotnik used the zone to his advantage, like oil ocean, Mystic Cave, to Sonic 3 where it just went one more step.
But the other thing I miss too, are the mini-bosses.
So this is my request: Could there be a chance of mini bosses, and *Original* Robotnik bosses be brought into the second episode? I'm all for nostalgia, but to make this the Sonic 4, I want there to be at least some bosses with great imagination and originality so it pushes the player to their limit and gives them and me that sense of accomplishment, just like how it was when you beat Mecha Sonic and EggRobo in Sonic 2.
And just one more thing: the sound Sonic makes when he fires away after a charged spin dash, do please change it to how it sounded in Sonic 2+3, right now it doesn't sound right
All the best and I look forward to the release date!
EDIT: Another thing too, the music. The title screens of the past Sonic games, its the drums that made it their own themes I felt. Here its just like the synthesiser went into overdrive. Bring back the drums and the beat!

This post has been edited by Mirai: 27 September 2010 - 08:50 AM

[MegaDash]

Hm. We'll tone it down a bit then. And I think Mirai's got the right attitude down. I'd also like to see the return of mid-bosses and truly great original Robotnik encounters.

Anyway, a scan has surfaced. It also has the first official snap of Mad Gear. The previewer cites some off physics too.

This Steve T from Nintendo Power actually knows what the fuck he's talking about. He nails everything: wonky physics, meh music and lack of charm. He also recognizes that classic Sonic was not about speed. He ends up liking the game, and maybe I will too (though I refuse to pay $15, sorry SEGA) but I have to give this guy an applause because usually mainstream video game reviewers don't understand classic Sonic and seem to emphasize a non-existing emphasis on speed.

They understand him well enough. Most of them grew up with the Genesis or Mega Drive and loved those games. Saying they don't understand because they may not cite the same complaints with the same vitriol as "this game fucking sucks" and "it's a worthless piece of garbage" is a little close-minded. Yeah, they do get that classic Sonic wasn't just about speed and that Sonic Rush doesn't play exactly like them. They're just not nearly as picky or pessimistic, and they have other games to give a shit about. Sonic's not that important.

Quite honestly, or at least in my eyes, once you get past all the bitching and pissing and moaning, Sonic 4 actually looks good.

Isn't this a bit redundant? You can replace "Sonic 4" with any video game. Maybe some of the "bitching and pissing and moaning" are just that, but a lot of it stems from expectations—a bar set by SEGA once they announced Project Needlemouse to be Sonic the Hedgehog 4. I mean, you seem to think classic Sonic physics is trivial:

I'm concerned less with the vague catch-all term of "physics" and more concerned with level design, object placement, and other things more specific, like the aforementioned air physics, uncurling, and the I/O relationship between Sonic and the d-pad. Saying the physics are bad is too easy and too vague to support meaningful conversation, as is making any reference to classic Sonic physics by name alone.

It isn't blown out of proportion. The physics are what make the game feel like classic Sonic or a fangame. During SAGE 2010 there was a nicely-put together demo that was great but the physics killed it. The developer said he'll work on it. Either way, that's a fangame. This on the other hand is officially Sonic 4. A game that might end up being $15... for the first part of it!

Granted. The physics should feel right, but they don't necessarily carry the full weight of a game's enjoyment. That's more evenly distributed between the music, the visuals, and the fundamental designs of each level. Again, saying the physics "feel right" needs some specification. How does it feel right? What's missing in Sonic 4? How does it matter? We should talk more about specifically what made the classic games enjoyable and what could make Sonic 4 not enjoyable rather than throwing out vague terms with little definition and degrade into general shit-flinging over it.

This post has been edited by MegaDash: 27 September 2010 - 08:51 AM

[Ross-Irving]

You know, if all you plan to do is be dicks to each other for pages upon pages, I may as well just close this thread.

Pretty please with a cherry on top.

[Gambit]

You know, if all you plan to do is be dicks to each other for pages upon pages, I may as well just close this thread.

Pretty please with a cherry on top.

Oh chicken strip, you so crazy. Remember the shit slinging that took place last time that happened? Nobody in this thread would know what to do with their lives if they can't bitch and moan about Sonic 4, so instead of doing something useful with their time they would spill into the rest of the forum.

This post has been edited by Gambit: 27 September 2010 - 11:20 AM

[chunkybeef31]

I would love to see a return of mid level bosses as well. I would also love to see more than 4 zones.

If anyone is interested I made a casino street act 3 bass remix last night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6_U1ZMOiss

[OSM]

You know, if all you plan to do is be dicks to each other for pages upon pages, I may as well just close this thread.

Why are you even hesitating

[Mad Echidna]

I'd like to make one more attempt arguing why the psychics really are one of the most important parts of a Sonic game.

Okay, Sonic is fast. That's pretty much the whole point. What makes controlling a fun character or vehicle fun? Think about other fast games like the Burnout series. The whole thing that makes Burnout fun for me is once you become used to the controls, you can carry your skills over to the other games. That euphoria of tapping your d-pad or stick just right to avoid traffic is what makes that game fun to come back to again and again.

Sonic is basically a car. We've all honed our skills over the 4 genesis titles, and get satisfaction from tapping the spindash a certain way, rolling down hills, blasting off at an angle from spindashes, and so on. Classic Sonic is like a classic car. You get behind the wheel and are able to do tricks by your own skill, not by pressing buttons. New Sonic is like a cheap consumer car. There's a bunch of buttons that you have to press to do things that you could do by skill alone in the sports car.

While driving a Hyundai can be fun, you can't expect to put us behind the wheel of one when we've been driving a Porsche 911 for 10 years and expect us not to notice.

This post has been edited by Mad Echidna: 27 September 2010 - 11:59 AM

[jasonchrist]

I'd like to make one more attempt arguing why the psychics really are one of the most important parts of a Sonic game.

Okay, Sonic is fast. That's pretty much the whole point. What makes controlling a fun character or vehicle fun? Think about other fast games like the Burnout series. The whole thing that makes Burnout fun for me is once you become used to the controls, you can carry your skills over to the other games. That euphoria of tapping your d-pad or stick just right to avoid traffic is what makes that game fun to come back to again and again.

Sonic is basically a car. We've all honed our skills over the 4 genesis titles, and get satisfaction from tapping the spindash a certain way, rolling down hills, blasting off at an angle from spindashes, and so on. Classic Sonic is like a classic car. You get behind the wheel and are able to do tricks by your own skill, not by pressing buttons. New Sonic is like a cheap consumer car. There's a bunch of buttons that you have to press to do things that you could do by skill alone in the sports car.

While driving a Hyundai can be fun, you can't expect to put us behind the wheel of one when we've been driving a Porsche 911 for 10 years and expect us not to notice.

Stop complaining! You're making me feel bad about my lack of standards.

Seriously though, you have made some awesome analogies. Especially this one.

However, like Sonic 4, Hyundai's are anything but fun... they are complete and utter shit. Cars built without care, attention to detail or any kind of passion.

While we're talking about analogies, Sonic 4 is like putting a black, Nigerian midget in a tux and expecting us to believe he's James Bond.

[Mad Echidna]

I'd like to make one more attempt arguing why the psychics really are one of the most important parts of a Sonic game.

Okay, Sonic is fast. That's pretty much the whole point. What makes controlling a fun character or vehicle fun? Think about other fast games like the Burnout series. The whole thing that makes Burnout fun for me is once you become used to the controls, you can carry your skills over to the other games. That euphoria of tapping your d-pad or stick just right to avoid traffic is what makes that game fun to come back to again and again.

Sonic is basically a car. We've all honed our skills over the 4 genesis titles, and get satisfaction from tapping the spindash a certain way, rolling down hills, blasting off at an angle from spindashes, and so on. Classic Sonic is like a classic car. You get behind the wheel and are able to do tricks by your own skill, not by pressing buttons. New Sonic is like a cheap consumer car. There's a bunch of buttons that you have to press to do things that you could do by skill alone in the sports car.

While driving a Hyundai can be fun, you can't expect to put us behind the wheel of one when we've been driving a Porsche 911 for 10 years and expect us not to notice.

Stop complaining! You're making me feel bad about my lack of standards.

Seriously though, you have made some awesome analogies. Especially this one.

However, like Sonic 4, Hyundai's are anything but fun... they are complete and utter shit. Cars built without care, attention to detail or any kind of passion.

While we're talking about analogies, Sonic 4 is like putting a black, Nigerian midget in a tux and expecting us to believe he's James Bond.

Any car can be fun to drive at high enough speeds (applies both literally and figuratively)

[Dude]

Guys, the Sega of America guys know all of this already. They know sonic 4 is nothing like the classics. They know it is sonic Rush with checkerboards in the first zone (obviously they don't admit this because it'd get them fired). They've been fighting for a honest-to-goodness classic game since the project started.


BUT, they're trying to convince Sega of Japan to make something other than what they designed in 1999 in an attempt to make Sonic appeal to the Japanese market. It is obviously a losing battle. The only weapon SoA has in their fight is our 'complaining'.

What I propose we do, is when the game comes out is to put all of these complaints into as well-written and lucid of a package as possible. Format each issue to be as technically correct as you can make it. Make sure to state how and why certain gameplay principles are bad, and why the classic games did things certain ways and for what reasons. Then send in these design documents. If every member writes their own well thought out document and sends it in separately, you'll effectively be giving them an army behind them that knows what they want.

[tokumaru]

I'd like to make one more attempt arguing why the psychics really are one of the most important parts of a Sonic game.

I like your analogy, it's probably the first one in this thread that is not about food.

In this part of this video you can see how the player can move Sonic sideways with so much precision that he feels more like a cursor than a video game character. There is zero momentum there, he simply "slides" to one side or the other depending on the button you press, and stops just as soon as the button is released. In the classics he'd make arches while hitting badniks like that, which is much more natural and pleasant to look at. And how frustrating is it that he doesn't accelerate when spinning downhill? I, and I'm sure many of you, did that in the classics all the time, it is just a natural way to gain speed.

[XCubed]

Heaven forbid we have more control over Sonic's movement than ever before. Give this a few years w/o playing Sonic 1-3 and you'll notice a difference..... you'll wish you could do the same in those games.

Old argument is old.

[Mad Echidna]

Heaven forbid we have more control over Sonic's movement than ever before. Give this a few years w/o playing Sonic 1-3 and you'll notice a difference..... you'll wish you could do the same in those games.

Old argument is old.

Yes because the way that Sonic has an involuntary spasm in the air and uncurls is totally fine grain control

[Solaris Paradox]

Heaven forbid we have more control over Sonic's movement than ever before.

Being able to move like that is only half the problem. The other half is the complete and total dead stop which occurs when you stop moving like that. Which also occurs if you're moving at top speed, FYI.

That's not "more control," it's actually just different control. Unfortunately, this very same momentum thing completely kills the dynamics of pinball—and I'm talking about the actual pinball here, as in the Casino levels—and also makes the role Sonic's speed plays in his platforming an unreliable one.