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Sonic Forces

#2761 User is offline Sean Evans 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:05 PM

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View PostLimitCrown, on 19 June 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

Being able to spin faster in place makes just as much sense, too. There isn't any need to think about it too much. Drifting segments don't appear very often anyways.


Spin Dashing is an exaggerated version of tire burnout. Not outside the realm of possibilty for Sonic to do. Jumping into a roll and somehow gaining a smaller turn radius is a stretch. That's nitpicky sure, but stuff like that bugs me.

#2762 User is offline synchronizer 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:09 PM

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I miss the Sonic Adventure 1 spin-dash. Not that this was necessrily intended, but you could use it as a normal spin-dash or effectively use it as a boost when already in motion.

#2763 User is offline ItalianForce 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:32 PM

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View Postsynchronizer, on 19 June 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

I miss the Sonic Adventure 1 spin-dash. Not that this was necessrily intended, but you could use it as a normal spin-dash or effectively use it as a boost when already in motion.


I'd take spin dash over boost any day, but honestly I can't imagine they'd ever return to the SA1 style spin dash. It was so utterly overpowered and broken that given one little incline you could launch yourself way higher than the dev team intended. Back in my day, I glitched through a TON of walls and objects by abusing that thing. Fun as anything, yes. But very difficult to contain. SA2 and subsequent games nerfed it too the point where it lost so much utility it wasn't even that much fun anymore.

For the time being, they appear to be dedicated to the boost formula.

#2764 User is offline Lobotomy 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:33 PM

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View Postsynchronizer, on 19 June 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

The double jump is a really bad sign for excessive block platforming.


It's also a really bad sign that this isn't going to feel like a Sonic game. Honestly, the first bit of gameplay footage tipped me off, when I saw how loose Sonic's turning circle was, and how poorly it scales with his speed. Sonic should have more freedom of movement than a 1994 Honda Civic.

Sorry, detractors to valid criticism, but a good Sonic game needs Sonic game feel. It's not something Colors or SLW had at all. They felt like a floaty Mario in 2D, and Sonic Unleashed with an unfair amount of airtime (for the player, anyway,) in 3D. Platforming CAN be too easy.
This post has been edited by Lobotomy: 19 June 2017 - 07:35 PM

#2765 User is offline Stimil Rc. 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:34 PM

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I don't ever want to see Adventure-'06 styled spin dashes in a 3D game ever again until we get some real slope physics. If I'm gonna be using it to gain a short burst of speed or consecutively to emulate the boost, it might as well be like the one from the Lost World games.
This post has been edited by Stimil Rc.: 19 June 2017 - 07:48 PM

#2766 User is offline Lobotomy 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:38 PM

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Honestly, I think you could absolutely fuse the Boost and Spindash into one nice, homogeneous move. Remove the input buffer from the SA1 spindash, and give it a slightly greater initial release speed for all charge levels but the lowest one. Somewhere in between the initial burst of speed from the Unleashed boost (which isn't as much as you think, the FoV change actually fakes a lot of the speed), and the release burst from the spindash. Then, widen the turning circle, so it's easier to control, then make it so that he decelerates just a little when turning. I think that would probably work out pretty well.
This post has been edited by Lobotomy: 19 June 2017 - 07:41 PM

#2767 User is offline LimitCrown 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:02 PM

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The problem with trying to balance the Spin Dash in the 3D games is that if it isn't spammable or very easy to use in many situations, then hardly anybody would use it. For example, Shadow the Hedgehog's spin dash was nerfed from how it was in Sonic Adventure and SA2. Its starting launch speed was small and it required a longer charging time in order to reach max speed. Those things make people disregard the spin dash even though it can be very useful in certain situations.
This post has been edited by LimitCrown: 19 June 2017 - 08:04 PM

#2768 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:16 PM

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View PostLobotomy, on 19 June 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

Sorry, detractors to valid criticism, but a good Sonic game needs Sonic game feel. It's not something Colors or SLW had at all. They felt like a floaty Mario in 2D, and Sonic Unleashed with an unfair amount of airtime (for the player, anyway,) in 3D. Platforming CAN be too easy.

Ok thats like saying Mario Sunshine doesn't feel like Mario because he doesn't control like he did in Super Mario World.

#2769 User is offline Sean Evans 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:30 PM

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View PostLimitCrown, on 19 June 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

The problem with trying to balance the Spin Dash in the 3D games is that if it isn't spammable or very easy to use in many situations, then hardly anybody would use it. For example, Shadow the Hedgehog's spin dash was nerfed from how it was in Sonic Adventure and SA2. Its starting launch speed was small and it required a longer charging time in order to reach max speed. Those things make people disregard the spin dash even though it can be very useful in certain situations.


The spin dash became "useless" the moment they dropped the momentum gameplay. The Spin Dash arguably only exist as a byproduct of that play style, and as a result can only truly work with those mechanics. Otherwise, cheap workarounds must be made just to incorporate it. There is no delicate balance here, because the move has a particular function that is not being fulfilled by the design of the game. Like a lot of things in Adventure, rolling and the spin dash have been haphazardly carried over based on how they operate in the original titles. I'll commend games like Lost World for at least trying to reincorporate the move in a way that better compliments the game's style, but that doesn't suddenly mean it works.

It's kind of weird how the Homing Attack is more of a series staple than the Spin Dash.

#2770 User is offline synchronizer 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:32 PM

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There was momentum in SA1 and the spindash, despite its "spammability" did actually work.

#2771 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:36 PM

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How about instead of a spindash you crouch and then boost giving you an instant fast paced roll.

#2772 User is offline synchronizer 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:45 PM

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That sounds like something from Sonic Riders 1.

#2773 User is offline LimitCrown 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:47 PM

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View Postsynchronizer, on 19 June 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

There was momentum in SA1 and the spindash, despite its "spammability" did actually work.

If you're able to repeatedly mash the button to repeatedly spindash and maintain a high speed, then it's similar to the boost. However, in SA1 and SA2, you can make multiple sharp turns while Sonic is curled into a ball.

#2774 User is offline synchronizer 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:01 PM

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That was my point earlier. It's the best of both worlds. Also rolling down a slope speeds up Sonic.

#2775 User is offline Aerosol 

Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:18 PM

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View PostLimitCrown, on 19 June 2017 - 08:47 PM, said:

View Postsynchronizer, on 19 June 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

There was momentum in SA1 and the spindash, despite its "spammability" did actually work.

If you're able to repeatedly mash the button to repeatedly spindash and maintain a high speed, then it's similar to the boost. However, in SA1 and SA2, you can make multiple sharp turns while Sonic is curled into a ball.


Why did Sonic careen into different directions if you tried to roll him down a hill without holding forward? This happens much more in Adventure 2 then 1, but it was very aggravating.

I wonder how we'd perceive boosting if it was only able to maintain your current speed and changed how Sonic interacted with the terrain (more like a marble)?

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