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Sound Effects Time to start collecting

#16 User is offline subsubstantive 

Posted 22 September 2009 - 08:30 PM

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I disagree, I think the duality and contention between the classic v. modern is useful, in that we aren't pushed too far in any particular direction. If we say, "ok modern", then we become stuck in a particular direction, a rather nebulous one. We need to keep the progress a continuing compromise between both. Especially given the nature of this open source project, in general we don't want to push anyone out. Just classic is too restrictive, just modern is too vague. What we can do, is make a final decision on a few pieces of music, perhaps through a vote, and then it will become clear in what ways new submissions should be -like.

#17 User is online steveswede 

Posted 22 September 2009 - 08:34 PM

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QUOTE (Oneki Kai @ Sep 23 2009, 01:57 AM)
QUOTE (steveswede @ Sep 22 2009, 04:15 AM)
There is nothing wrong with having some basic waveforms. Providing that the sample rate is above 44100Hz. Because that's the limit of our hearing.


Trust me, it's not. Even though the nyquist of a 44.1KHz waveform is 22.05KHz, which is above the human hearing range, 44.1 is not the limit of optimal sample rates. At 44.1 KHz, an A7 note has only 25 samples to complete the waveform cycle. That's pretty limited resolution. I would personally say 96KHz is the max common sample rate before further gains are too difficult to detect, but higher rates are useful for archiving.

-Begin Rant-

Also, why should we focus on old sound effects? If that's what you want, just use the SADX PC sound effects. They're only 22KHz, but they still have the resolution of the Genesis. This project needs to sort out what it wants. To me I hear "We want modern, HD material that's exactly like the original!" This applies to what I've seen art, music, and sounds. Using a bunch of FM generated effects is not HD, it's just copying the original.

I have trouble with the music too. So far it's just been a matter of posting something and getting a thumbs up or down. The management for this project needs to decide what they want and spell it out in a place that I don't have to dig forty pages to find. The issue with the sound effects and art applies to music: You want it to be modern while still being completely classic. Pick one.
completely classic. Pick one.


Sorry, I meant to say CD quality. But if you read what I said I did say some effects. It's like the water jumping, machinery noises should all be changed because the Megadrive did the best it could emulating real sounds but there are some that are so characteristic to sonic that they should stay in there. With these, they should be at a higher sample rate but keep the basic waveforms, like the jump which is just a saw wave gliding up.
This post has been edited by steveswede: 22 September 2009 - 08:36 PM

#18 User is offline Oneki Kai 

Posted 22 September 2009 - 09:13 PM

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The jump, eh?

http://www.box.net/shared/94a3oj96j0

Fresh off the synthesizer. Now waiting to hear the standard "how imperfect they are" I seem to get: Too close to the original, too far, too loud, too stereo, to perfect, too simple.

#19 User is offline GerbilSoft 

Posted 22 September 2009 - 09:28 PM

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QUOTE (subsubstantive @ Sep 22 2009, 09:30 PM)
Especially given the nature of this open source project, in general we don't want to push anyone out.

S2HD isn't open-source, so the general rules for open-source projects don't apply here.

With regards to the sampling rate, both the YM2612 and PSG used sampling rates over 100 kHz. Of course, this isn't really feasible on most systems. Sound cards using an AC'97 codec, for instance, typically support a maximum sampling rate of 48 kHz.

Or, you could use an alternate method: generate sound effects on the fly! (Similar to how it's done on the original system.) That way, you could dynamically increase the sampling rate and resolution for higher-end systems, and decrease them for lower-end systems. (Think SVG for audio.)
This post has been edited by GerbilSoft: 22 September 2009 - 09:30 PM

#20 User is offline Oneki Kai 

Posted 22 September 2009 - 09:33 PM

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-edit-

I really don't recommend real time synthesis. The graphics engine will probably already be a CPU whore.

Also, for a bit of comic relief: The Alien Ship sample I suggested for the Death Egg at the beginning of the topic was made with the reverb tail for a fart sample from Dungeon Keeper 1.

Making that sample required:

-Applying compression to the tail so that it sustains.
-Bi-directional looping
-Pitch shifting
-An LFO set to slight panning
-Delay
-Resonant Delay
-Trim and loop
This post has been edited by Oneki Kai: 22 September 2009 - 09:42 PM

#21 User is online steveswede 

Posted 22 September 2009 - 09:50 PM

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QUOTE (Oneki Kai @ Sep 23 2009, 03:13 AM)
The jump, eh?

http://www.box.net/shared/94a3oj96j0

Fresh off the synthesizer. Now waiting to hear the standard "how imperfect they are" I seem to get: Too close to the original, too far, too loud, too stereo, to perfect, too simple.


LOL

#22 User is offline Vincent 

Posted 23 September 2009 - 04:41 AM

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Those are the soundrips we're especially interested to listen:

Sonic R
Sonic 3D Blast
Sonic Adventure


The sound effects must be taken straight off the emulator on highest audio quality settings, possibly played out in a sequence from soundtest with enough space to do not overlap sounds.
As for the saving, a single or multiple .WAV files at 44kHz or higher.

That's all we ask for, no more and no less! smile.png
This post has been edited by Vincent: 23 September 2009 - 04:43 AM

#23 User is offline Canned Karma 

Posted 23 September 2009 - 09:04 AM

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QUOTE (Oneki Kai @ Sep 22 2009, 08:57 PM)
I have trouble with the music too. So far it's just been a matter of posting something and getting a thumbs up or down. The management for this project needs to decide what they want and spell it out in a place that I don't have to dig forty pages to find.


I've spelled it out three times already. The last time I did I even gave bullet points for those still not understanding.

If you didn't see it in the music thread, look harder.

#24 User is offline Overlord 

Posted 23 September 2009 - 12:43 PM

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QUOTE (Vincent @ Sep 23 2009, 10:41 AM)
Those are the soundrips we're especially interested to listen:

Sonic R
Sonic 3D Blast
Sonic Adventure


The sound effects must be taken straight off the emulator on highest audio quality settings, possibly played out in a sequence from soundtest with enough space to do not overlap sounds.
As for the saving, a single or multiple .WAV files at 44kHz or higher.

That's all we ask for, no more and no less! smile.png

For Sonic Adventure especially, why not just take the actual files straight off the disc image? Surely that will be the most perfect way of doing it?

#25 User is offline NickAVV 

Posted 23 September 2009 - 05:45 PM

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I found some Sonic R sound effects, and weeded out the ones I thought sounded usable. Let me know what you think?

http://www.box.net/shared/7y2bbt60b7

Includes:
•Ring
•Jump
•Skid
•Splash
•Spindash Charge
•Spindash Release

maybe more, having trouble remembering. wink.png
This post has been edited by NickAVV: 23 September 2009 - 09:58 PM

#26 User is offline Oneki Kai 

Posted 23 September 2009 - 05:57 PM

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QUOTE (Canned Karma @ Sep 23 2009, 06:04 AM)
QUOTE (Oneki Kai @ Sep 22 2009, 08:57 PM)
I have trouble with the music too. So far it's just been a matter of posting something and getting a thumbs up or down. The management for this project needs to decide what they want and spell it out in a place that I don't have to dig forty pages to find.


I've spelled it out three times already. The last time I did I even gave bullet points for those still not understanding.

If you didn't see it in the music thread, look harder.


Gee, you'd think something that important would be posted as a separate topic, even if it cannot be replied to. I said I wouldn't dig for it, so I just won't bother any more.

#27 User is offline LOst 

Posted 24 September 2009 - 06:08 AM

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QUOTE (GerbilSoft @ Sep 23 2009, 06:28 AM)
Or, you could use an alternate method: generate sound effects on the fly! (Similar to how it's done on the original system.) That way, you could dynamically increase the sampling rate and resolution for higher-end systems, and decrease them for lower-end systems. (Think SVG for audio.)

Is there anyone here that can port the Sonic 2 sound engine to C code, and use DirectSound to generate the waves? It is too much to ask for really :P

We don't want to emulate the Z80 but we need to emulate YM2612 for that. I am not qualified for sound programmer at this stage.

#28 User is offline nineko 

Posted 24 September 2009 - 06:22 AM

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QUOTE (LOst @ Sep 24 2009, 01:08 PM)
Is there anyone here that can port the Sonic 2 sound engine to C code?
Cough.

#29 User is offline Phoebius 

Posted 24 September 2009 - 09:34 AM

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QUOTE (NickAVV @ Sep 24 2009, 12:45 AM)
I found some Sonic R sound effects, and weeded out the ones I thought sounded usable. Let me know what you think?

http://www.box.net/shared/7y2bbt60b7

Includes:
•Ring
•Jump
•Skid
•Splash
•Spindash Charge
•Spindash Release

maybe more, having trouble remembering. wink.png


The water and the ring sounds are just awful.

#30 User is offline LOst 

Posted 24 September 2009 - 10:33 AM

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QUOTE (nineko @ Sep 24 2009, 03:22 PM)
QUOTE (LOst @ Sep 24 2009, 01:08 PM)
Is there anyone here that can port the Sonic 2 sound engine to C code?
Cough.

I will definitely look through that! Thanks!

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