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What is Sonic Team doing?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Scartillery, Apr 24, 2010.

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  1. Mr. Pictures

    Mr. Pictures

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    I don't think so. Consider how many times Sonic has had to be redesigned in the past for not only for his games, but other mediums like TV. Not just appearance-wise, but the "coolness" factor as well. As a character he doesn't seem to age too well, because what's considered "cool" changes with time, and that could mean a possibility of many things.
     
  2. Volpino

    Volpino

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    A secret. >:3
    Even the spin-offs were loosely based on platforming elements. Admittedly though, if they made a Fang spin-off, that would be less of a bother to me, especially considering the only way that would work is if they went off something like Fur Fighters and they (hopefully) wouldn't try a rated M game.

    Not to mention originally Sonic was designed based on pop culture at the time, which was a bad design choice to begin with because it didn't last.

    When I look at things like ASR, all I see is an attempt to make Sonic look cool because he's in a cool car, or with Unleashed, he's turning into a cool monster... Or with Black Knight, he's got a cool sword.
     
  3. Mr. Pictures

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    Exactly, and I doubt it will stop there, he'll continue to be redesigned for the sake of staying hip. Do you think several years from now the current Sonic will still look "badass"? I think Sonic Team already has enough trouble keeping up with being stylish.

    I'd say his games are still quite popular, despite the lack of quality in some.

    Yeah, Sonic Team and Sega themselves know Sonic can't support himself on his own, so he's supposed to still be cool because he's got accessories and crap.

    On a related note in the past, I remember watching the pilot for SatAM and when they first introduce Sonic he jumps out playing a guitar and mentions Axl Rose. It's pretty pathetic.
     
  4. Hmm...maybe.

    I'd say this one may stick for a while. Considering they've held it for nearly 10 years now and Sonic's popularity and "coolness" is on the rise.

    I'm going to go out on limb here and say, I prefer the new design anyway. Some of the models just sucked, but Unleashed's one (as I'm sure has been mentioned upteen times already) was reaaly good. It wasn't classic, but who cares. It looked good. I'll probably get mullered now....oh joy....
     
  5. Mr. Pictures

    Mr. Pictures

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    Sure, I'm not saying you can't like the design. When it gets right down to it, as a character, Sonic isn't exactly timeless. He'll continue to be redesigned and tweaked because as a character he isn't all too strong.
     
  6. Volpino

    Volpino

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    A secret. >:3
    Well, considering redesigning, and the past few games...

    '06, Sonic saved a whore princess, in Unleashed he turned into a wolf warehog and in Black Knight he had a sword.

    So, I think THIS is the direction Sonic is taking.

    [​IMG]

    :specialed:
     
  7. Mr. Pictures

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    What about the Dark Brotherhood and the Twilight Cage?

    As sad as it sounds, it doesn't really surprise me that it's coming down to this. I'm not sure what they want to do with Sonic anymore.
     
  8. Techokami

    Techokami

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    It's Sonic's birthday. Sonic the Hedgehog for the SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive came out on June 23rd.
     
  9. Volpino

    Volpino

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    A secret. >:3
    Never got that far on DB, but damn, they really are copying Zelda. In all the bad ways. DB was an outright copy of Final Fantasy, and I might add, Sonic doesn't work well in that kind of RPG.

    Wow, maybe if I'm lucky, they'll release a Tails Adventures 2 on October 16th. :v:
     
  10. Wow, that image makes me think: why do us Sonic fans bitch about the newer design, yet Zelda fans don't even mention it. I mean Zelda has a slightly different design for each of his games.
    Really, I think we've taken the whole design thing way too far...

    Anyways, back to the issue at hand; What do you think Sonic Team are doing? What do you think they'd make? What would you like them to make? etc.
     
  11. Mr. Pictures

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    Are doing? Something ripped-off from Zelda. Personally, I'm not going to wait for the next great Sonic game because I don't think there will be one. The "classics" (Sonic 1 - 3, SCD and S&K) are enough for me, and ROM hacks are alright too.
     
  12. Cool.
    Personally, with the potential Unleashed had, I'm sure a good Sonic game isn't far away. Unleashed could have been better, had they excluded the Werehog, and used that development time to completely polish the Day stages.
    One can't survive off the "classics" forever, but then I guess you do have Sonic 4, if you're interested by it.

    Clearly, the issue with Sonic games isn't the idea, its the fact that they forget to polish good parts of the game by adding pointless extras.
    I hope to God, that SEGA have been keeping an eye on these forums. A lot of us have some good ideas that they could use.

    What can I say, I'm a hopeful kind of guy.

    Also, would it be a bad idea, if MediaMolecule bought Sonic Team and licences to Sonic. I'm sure they CAN do physics well.
    Also, a level editor in a Sonic game would be badass. Given LBP2, downscaled Game Development engine, you could make entire fangames using it, and submit them to the PSN.

    Yes, but why do we care? Honestly, if they had used the "classic" Sonic design in 2006, it wouldn't have changed its reception. the graphics are a key element, the gameplay is a key element, but whether or not Sonic should look "classic" is really just a matter of opinion, and frankly, in terms of design, SEGA really don't care what we think, its thier character.
     
  13. Volpino

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    A secret. >:3
    Regarding Mm, no, it would not be a good idea to use their engine for Sonic, because it's not a Sonic engine and it works very different from a Sonic engine. Besides, given they did an Unleashed pack and called the stickers that came with it 'unleashed stickers' (If you've ever seen the stickers you'll know why this bothers me) I really don't want them behind Sonic development. If they can't recognize Genesis sprites compared to a NextGen game, I would be terrified to see what they come up with. Besides, their physics engine is fixed on a specific kind of gane to the point using it for anything else would literally break the game.

    The entire reason they're making an LBP2 is because their engine is incapable of doing some of the things the fans have asked for, and things they wanted to include themselves. From what I've heard, adding water was already a tremendous task given that water physics didn't, and still don't, work properly to begin with. They had to design their own kind of water, I heard.
     
  14. OKei

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    I'm actually amused by that. In fact, as a tongue-and-cheek idea, I like it!

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Introversive

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    I see nothing against a second Tails Adventure, since it seems the best choice if Sega wants to make a subseries with a secondary character. Tails already has two games and one of them (Tails Adventure obviously) was well-liked, so making a Tails Adventure 2 would be a good way to expand the series. I wouldn't mind if they try to expand on Tails Sky Patrol and make it more polished and playable either. Nintendo has made two series based on a secondary Mario character (Wario), and it would be interesting to see what approach Sega would take for it.

    However, I don't think that going from point A to point B is one of the main problems with the Sonic games. Aren't the Stars and Shine Sprites from the 3D Mario games essentially the goal points? There's not much of a difference between collecting a Star in 3D Mario and getting to the goal point in a Sonic game. In fact, Super Mario Galaxy has levels in general more linear than 64 and Sunshine. The way you progress through most levels in Galaxy are pretty similar to "Go to the Goal Ring" levels in the Sonic/Shadow parts of Sonic Adventure 2 or Heroes (sans enemies that take forever to kill and the teamwork) as Mario with mini-planets, yet I don't see any major complaints about that for some reason. Even the sandbox levels in it don't feel as much expansive as the levels in 64 and Sunshine.

    I'm pretty sure that one of the main reasons that the more recent Sonic games haven't been doing as well is because of development time. There have been Sonic games with pretty unique ideas and mechanics being released once each year. If you had to make a new 3D video game that is innovative and well polished once every year, you probably wouldn't have time to iron out all the creases in any of those. One major reason why Super Mario 64 and Galaxy are well received is because Nintendo has been working on those games for more years than most if not all the 3D Sonics and thus had time to polish the gameplay. If it's a brand new Sonic game that Sonic Team is making and they take their time this time, then the result will probably be excellent.

    I have been hoping that somehow for Sonic's twentieth birthday that they would make a huge collection of all the Genesis Sonic games like what has been mentioned in an earlier post. If the Advance Trilogy, Knuckle's Chaotix, and possibly even some of the hacks if the laws don't mess up the chances are included, then that would make for an awesome way to celebrate Sonic becoming 20.
     
  16. Volpino

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    A secret. >:3
    I agree with that, and they should work on the character more period IMO, but I'm a Tails fan so of course I think that, especially since he wasn't even playable in Black Knight and his current roles show SEGA's reluctance to even try with him anymore only deepens my opinion that he needs a bit more attention these days, but mainly, with TA, it was the fact that you didn't just go from point A to point B, there were multiple point Bs, and some weren't accessable unless you had a certain power/item, meaning each level had replay value.

    The difference was that with Sonic, the goal is always in the same place, except the 'Find the chao' missions in SA2 and the mission mode in SA1. The focus is always on one start, and one end, making the levels very linear. A sandbox level system like Mario's means that even if there is one start, there can be multiple finishes, and on Mario, even though you enter with an assigned mission (with a clue of how to complete it) you can complete the missions in whatever order you feel like. With BK1 and 2, you just entered the level and started collecting shit. There was no order, save the fact you had had to learn powers which made parts of the game more accessible as you went (and was a good system to go by) and there was no 'end, and you couldn't just complete the level in one go, you had to progress more through the game, sometimes not even being able to fully complete the first or second level without a power you gained in the fourth or fifth, which made the levels have more value and complexity. And in the case of BK2, some levels were even linked to other levels which made the puzzles of those levels more complex because it meant that you couldn't fully complete a level unless you found another entrance to it from another point or it made the levels more interactive with the world in general, and the way they linked up with each other made the game that much more interesting.

    Sonic's levels are always very straightforward, "Go from point A to point B." Sometimes you don't even need to pay attention to a level after you've completed it, except in Sonic 3's case where you need all the emeralds, but I've always thought even that made the levels virtually mindless in design, meaning they lacked any detail or complexity except for alternate routes. They, essentially, have no adventure value past finding the bonus rings and alternate routes. The world is very static, straightforward and the levels are all single-purpose, especially since the emeralds aren't required to beat the game, and are only a bonus with an extra level.
     
  17. Introversive

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    I can see what you mean with having multiple goals in levels. If there's more than one end point, then it's more likely that there will be more exploration to be had in levels. I never played much of the Banjo Kazooe games except for when I was little and got to play a rented copy of the first one, so I wouldn't know much about it, but I do know a lot about the 3D Marios, especially 64. There were many places to go in the levels of 64 and Sunshine, partly because there were multiple goals throughout it. While the level missions in Sunshine are more rigid than they were in 64, both of those games levels are designed to have a place for each Star/Sun Sprite. However in Galaxy, most of the levels seem linear in how you progress in them. Sure, there are the Hungry Lumas that take you to a different Star if you collect enough Star Bits, and you have to revisit some levels due to Luigi collecting a secret star there or a comet approaching, but it still feels a bit more straight forward than in the other 3D Mario games. The level design is changed a bit for each mission, so you can't go tackle Star #2 or Star #3 in a level without collecting the Stars before it. I feel that's counter intuitive to the emphasis on exploration 64 and Sunshine had. The main thing about Galaxy that's not linear is which levels to go through, not the part where you actually go through most of the stages.

    If the released version Sonic 4 does actually have secret goals that take you to the third platforming level of a zone, then that would appeal to both speed fans and those who want to explore and find secrets. I wonder why 2D Sonic doesn't have any secret exits (that actually take you to a brand new level like in Super Mario World), since that wouldn't be a detriment of speed at all.
     
  18. Sonic games are linear, because the last time they tried Sandbox, open ended level design and objectives, they came up with Shadow the Hedgehog.
    Don't believe me? Play the game. there are 10 different endings to the standard Story mode. Each level has 3 possible outcomes. You need to complete a seperate mission to get each ending.
    Was Shadow a good game? No.
    Sonic is best when linear, so I should stay that way. Unless of course the development team actually know how to make a sandbox game without failing.


    Also, about Mm.
    I'm not saying that their physics engine should be used.
    Media Molecule are more than capable of replicating the original games physics. Plus if they can't they can just use an older one.
    My point was about using the "LEVEL EDITOR" to create and submit your own Sonic styled levels.

    Also, the issue with the Sonic Unleashed pack stickers:
    You can't be serious. Their whole point was to create a "sonic-y" feeling, yet still have the fundamental idea that it is in fact a sackboy. They could probably come up with a better model.
    About the water physics, yes they had to create their own version. They weren't trying to emulate real world water physics. It's a 2/3D platformer based around a puppet.

    Let the design go. It isn't going to change.
     
  19. Hybrid Project Alpha

    Hybrid Project Alpha

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    like Captain Rainbow?
     
  20. Volpino

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    A secret. >:3
    That's what I meant. lol :colbert:

    There's a difference in sandbox and open-ended. lol :colbert:

    Making your own Sonic levels and posting them on the internet would mean we wouldn't need to bitch about Sonic Team's inability to do it, then we could yell at each other for what is and isn't Sonic. :specialed:

    But I do think that's a good idea.

    Why the fuck did you bring that into this? I said the fact they named stickers from Sonic 1 Sonic Unleashed stickers shows just how much they know about Sonic.

    If you want to hand Sonic over to a company, give it to Rare. They aren't shit with making 3-D platformers.
     
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