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New Crackers Sprites Found in Yuu Yuu Hakusho: Makyou Toitsusen

#1 User is offline Vangar 

Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:53 AM

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Didn't see it posted here, please trash if I've missed it from somewhere else:

https://tcrf.net/Pro...akyou_Toitsusen

#2 User is offline nineko 

Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:47 AM

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It's been mentioned in a couple of topics (here and here), but I don't think it would hurt to give it some more spotlight since it's quite an interesting find.

#3 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:06 AM

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What a strange place to find those sprites, and what a strange set of sprites to be found in the first place. Makes me wonder if they ever got further with that isometric special stage thing before scrapping Crackers and starting work on Chaotix, and if so, I wonder what the chances are of a later build of Crackers existing somewhere.

#4 User is offline Overlord 

Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:09 PM

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View Postnineko, on 17 July 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

It's been mentioned in a couple of topics (here and here), but I don't think it would hurt to give it some more spotlight since it's quite an interesting find.

Yeah, I'm going to let this topic run as a result.

#5 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:49 PM

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View Postevilhamwizard, on 12 July 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

View PostICEknight, on 12 July 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

View Postevilhamwizard, on 11 July 2017 - 11:53 PM, said:

I've encountered matches from Space Harrier II, a prototype of J. League Pro Striker 2, and Streets of Rage 3.
Just wondering, how can you find that kind of matches?
I took the final Yu Yu Hakusho ROM and did a hex binary comparison with the prototype to find where bytes were added/removed/changed between the two versions and discovered that all of the leftover data in the prototype is located where null padding data is supposed to go in the final. Using that as a guide for finding where the leftover data is located, I used a binary grep on an uncompressed ROM set folder with about 8-16 bytes from the suspected areas. In a few seconds I get a list of the ROMs that match the data, and I view the region in the resulting ROM(s) to double check. Every result matches the equivalent region in the Yu Yu Hakusho ROM (save for J. League and the later Crackers build).
So has anybody tried doing the reverse search? As in, looking for a piece of Tails' overview head graphics in a ROM set where the prototype "overdumps" haven't been trimmed to look "cleaner"?

I'd say it's entirely possible that there may be more Crackers stuff hiding in the least suspected places.

#6 User is offline Zeoinx 

Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:18 PM

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These sprites would allow a nice help in adding Tails into Knuckles Chaotix at least....gives a nice starting template to the art style the original creators were going for.

#7 User is offline MotorRoach 

Posted 18 July 2017 - 12:43 AM

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View PostZeoinx, on 17 July 2017 - 11:18 PM, said:

These sprites would allow a nice help in adding Tails into Knuckles Chaotix at least....gives a nice starting template to the art style the original creators were going for.


Cough.

#8 User is offline McAleeCh 

Posted 18 July 2017 - 10:46 AM

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View PostICEknight, on 17 July 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

I'd say it's entirely possible that there may be more Crackers stuff hiding in the least suspected places.
At the very least, it looks like there's a small fragment of Sonic's spindash sprites for the top-down stages - only two complete frames and one incomplete, but they were posted in the TCRF topic shortly after Tails'.
This post has been edited by McAleeCh: 18 July 2017 - 10:46 AM

#9 User is offline rata 

Posted 18 July 2017 - 05:14 PM

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I thought it was undoubutly that crackers was just a joke, because... CRACKERS!!!one!!!


I wonder how the hell did those sprites end in a figthing game though...

#10 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:05 PM

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View Postrata, on 18 July 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

I thought it was undoubutly that crackers was just a joke, because... CRACKERS!!!one!!!


I wonder how the hell did those sprites end in a figthing game though...


They are likely from uninitialized memory. Meaning that, on the PC that built the Yu Yu Hakisho rom, they might have built a version of Crackers on the same PC prior, and thus when writing uninitialized memory, it just resorts to whatever was in memory prior.

#11 User is offline BlazeHedgehog 

Posted 18 July 2017 - 08:41 PM

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Yeah. In more simple terms: whenever you "erase" data on a computer, you aren't actually erasing it, you're just telling the system that it's okay to overwrite it. "Undelete" software actually exists that checks this data and will let you get the files back if they haven't been overwritten yet. ("Military grade" erasure software will actually flag data for deletion and then overwrite it with blank data so it can't be accessed anymore. Some people actually do this multiple times to ensure the old data can never, ever come back)

In the case of this ROM, the Crackers sprites are simply whatever wasn't overwritten yet. These games were stored on test cartridges, which would get data from a PC and write them to the cart for testing on Sega Genesis hardware. That means that, at some point in the past, before YYH was written to the test cart, it was used to test Sonic Crackers, and since the YYH game data was smaller than the Crackers prototype, the Crackers data hung around.

What likely happened is that this Yu Yu Hakusho game was likely dumped from the test cartridge back to a ROM file on a PC so it could be fed in to the Sega Channel system (for whatever reason, probably more testing) and so the extra Crackers data got dumped with it like a stowaway.

#12 User is offline True Dude 

Posted 19 July 2017 - 02:46 AM

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Who wants to be the first to import these into the game to see what it would've looked like?

#13 User is offline Neo 

Posted 19 July 2017 - 03:09 AM

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View PostBlazeHedgehog, on 18 July 2017 - 08:41 PM, said:

and since the YYH game data was smaller than the Crackers prototype, the Crackers data hung around.

I thought the sprites were found around the middle of the ROM, which would suggest the Crackers data "bled through" the padding sections in the Yuu Yuu build.

#14 User is offline Laura 

Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:49 AM

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I know this is pretty much obvious to everyone by now, but surely this also confirms that Crackers isn't a joke/april's fool?

And yeah, most people don't believe that anymore, but there was a thread recently by someone who vehemently still believed it.

#15 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 19 July 2017 - 01:55 PM

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View PostBlazeHedgehog, on 18 July 2017 - 08:41 PM, said:

In the case of this ROM, the Crackers sprites are simply whatever wasn't overwritten yet. These games were stored on test cartridges, which would get data from a PC and write them to the cart for testing on Sega Genesis hardware. That means that, at some point in the past, before YYH was written to the test cart, it was used to test Sonic Crackers, and since the YYH game data was smaller than the Crackers prototype, the Crackers data hung around.

View Postdrx, on 05 August 2009 - 09:02 AM, said:

This is not actually true. There is no way this could physically happen. They are leftovers from the compiling process.

View Postdrx, on 08 August 2009 - 06:49 PM, said:

There is no way to erase an EPROM this way. EPROMs are erased wholly. You would have to be very surgical about it to leave holes like that. Plus, these leftovers are always in place of large packs of 00s (padding).



So which one is it?
This post has been edited by ICEknight: 19 July 2017 - 01:56 PM

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