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Brad Buxer and the S3 Mid Boss Theme One step closer to the truth, or?

#121 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 11 February 2012 - 06:46 PM

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Those quotes aren't being kept track of. Could you please make a topic with all the stuff you got from him?

#122 User is offline LOst 

Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:59 AM

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View PostE102, on 10 February 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

(confirmed as Sawada's)

Can you tell me everything you know about Tomonori Sawada? I have nothing! Skip any speculations.

EDIT: Sorry, again I should have checked the wiki before making the post.
http://segaretro.org...26redirect%3Dno
This post has been edited by LOst: 12 February 2012 - 07:03 AM

#123 User is offline Shadix 

Posted 12 February 2012 - 12:30 PM

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Quote

Track 14 (Sky Sanctuary Zone) is linked to Sawada by me because it sounds the most like some of his other work. Tell me this (confirmed as Sawada's) doesn't sound like SS. How about this one and its arrangement (both by Sawada). Sawada is all over that high synth sound, and it doesn't hurt that I concluded months ago, before I knew any of those confirmed tracks, that he composed that track and others that shared the same type of sound simply by accounting for known roles in the series and then taking what few context clues I had to assign each sets of tracks to a composer (for Nagao and Sawada, mainly). Furthermore, the other two tracks on the CD just don't sound that close to his known work.


Sky High is actually by Takenobu Mitsuyoshi and that that version was like a remix album. Kenichi Tokoi, Jun Senoue, and quite a few other popular Sonic composers collaborated on that.



The traits you are attributing to him don't really define a style either. How did he get credited for Underground Zone btw? How are we sure he did Sky Sanctuary? I thought s2gg soundtrack was mostly Hataya, and Underground Zone in particular sounds very much in Hataya's style.

I'm also not sure I see this said correlation stylistically between Underground Zone and Sky Sanctuary. Granted, that doesn't mean much because part of being a successful composer is your ability to adapt to other styles, but I'm very curious as to where this info came from.
This post has been edited by Shadix: 12 February 2012 - 12:38 PM

#124 User is offline Dissident93 

Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:27 PM

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The only official thing that lists Sawada for Sky Sanc. (And Title & Angel Island), is this.

Quote

11 Title Music From Sonic 3
13 Angel Island Zone
14 Sky Sanctuary Zone

M11, M13-M14
----
Composer: Tomonori Sawada, Yoshiaki Kashima, Howard Drossin (specific details unknown)


#125 User is offline E102 

Posted 15 February 2012 - 06:15 PM

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View PostShadix, on 12 February 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Sky High is actually by Takenobu Mitsuyoshi and that that version was like a remix album. Kenichi Tokoi, Jun Senoue, and quite a few other popular Sonic composers collaborated on that.


OK, first off it's not a "remix." It's an arrangement. I must say I'm really starting to get annoyed by the 99% that coin all these unique definitions to a single word.

-Arrangement = How a composition is played
-Rearrangement = Taking a composition and playing it a different way. This includes extending a track past the original composition, so long as said composition remains in the track (ex. Rolling Eggman).
-Re-Arrangement = Taking a previous arrangement, and editing that just a little more, usually just adding something in, effectively maintaining the same arrangement style (ex. The "Blazy Mixes" for Sonic Rush) and Dream Bobsleigh
-Remix = Chopping up, reordering, repetition, etc. of audio clips with or without new sounds added in (ex. Sonic Boom D'nB Mix).
-Mix = Basic audio editing, such as merging the instrumental with the vocals and affecting the sound output, such as its pitch (ex. Sonic Heroes No-GTR Mix).
-Re-Mix = Taking an old set of audio and mixing it with a new one (ex. The 2007 versions of "Live & Learn" and "What I'm Made of" made for True Blue: The Best of Sonic the Hedgehog.

Second, have you ever listened to Sonic Riders' soundtrack? 0:54 should be what you want to hear from this.

Now let's look at Daytona. The original Sky High wasn't synth heavy. "Arrangement," as a term basically equates to "style," as it's being reinterpreted by someone else or by the same person in another way.

Another confirmed track by Sawada is the re-arranged version of Sona mi aieru ec sancitu. I've linked it to when the track starts to pick up.

View PostShadix, on 12 February 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

The traits you are attributing to him don't really define a style either. How did he get credited for Underground Zone btw? How are we sure he did Sky Sanctuary? I thought s2gg soundtrack was mostly Hataya, and Underground Zone in particular sounds very much in Hataya's style.


S2GG was actually mostly Ogata (He is credited first, after all). The tracks with rythmn are mostly Ogata's, and those with melody (especially funk) tend to be Hataya's.

I proved it here. Sawada only did one track, and since he contributed to Sonic Gems Collection's music (which included quite a few mixes), enough research in accordance with credit order will prove which track is his. You see, when a composer is part of a project and their work is reused, they tend to rearrange said work: not always, but most of the time. Sonic Generations was certainly no exception to this, but M&SatOWGs was. In that game, Dream Short Track clearly resembles the original Egg Factory (and is thus a re-arrangement), with very little alteration. Sawada is the original composer, thus it is most likely his. Fittingly enough, Sawada is credited last (on Wii) and not at all on DS (where the track is absent), thus this must be his only composition.

Also on that game is Dream Bobsleigh (based on SH's Special Stage Bonus Challenge [composed by Hataya; credited for music work]) and Dream Snowboard Cross, Dream Alpine, etc. (Radical Highway, Seaside Hill, etc. [composed by Senoue; credited for music work])

Now you're probably asking "What about Sky Sanctuary?" (for Dream Gliding) Well aside from Senoue himself confirming it's his arrangement, the fact is that one thing does not necessarily imply another, and one must know what he is talking about to having sort of credibility what-so-ever. Jun arranged SS simply because he is interested in rearranging S3's soundtrack for newer games (just as he did with AI for SSBB), and, as he said he would, he delivered.

I don't know about you, but I actually put forth the effort and the initiative to research these things and actually say something about it. The gears will only turn if someone is doing the turning; they won't just turn themselves. Even if I'm wrong on something, it will only provide the energy necessary for someone else to prove me as such and deliver the real truth, and I'd be lying if I said I haven't exploited that to my advantage. I'm not in this for fame and recognition; I'm in this to find answers to questions that interest me. The important thing is here that we actually do something. Hesitation... is not in my nature.

So sue me if I don't have a close enough relationship with the developers to receive official word. What I've done might just be the closest to that you'll ever see (especially with this supposed lawsuit hanging over their heads), and when you try hard enough to find something, I'm sure you see that that is worth nearly as much.

View PostShadix, on 12 February 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

I'm also not sure I see this said correlation stylistically between Underground Zone and Sky Sanctuary. Granted, that doesn't mean much because part of being a successful composer is your ability to adapt to other styles, but I'm very curious as to where this info came from.


I didn't necessarily say there was one, but the closest I'd say it sounds to SS is at 1:01 (compared to 0:06 into SS). Just a quick analysis on my part, though.
This post has been edited by E102: 16 February 2012 - 04:07 PM

#126 User is offline Dissident93 

Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:18 PM

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Senoue confirmed Sky Sanc. being Sawada's? I must have missed this somewhere.

#127 User is offline Dissident93 

Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:07 PM

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Any updates evilhamwizard?

#128 User is offline Polish Pete 

Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:11 PM

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Sorry for bumping an old thread. I didn't know which thread to post it in, since it concerns the S&K part of the soundtrack rather than Sonic 3's and Michael Jackson's involvement with it, hence why I'm posting it here.

Okay, so not long ago I've come across one guy on YT who tried to sort every S3K track to its supposed composer (https://www.youtube....268AC7AD17A35F6). He also has a link in description to a list that credits every S3K composer for their work (at least according to him). I wouldn't really call it the most reliable source, though what is already confirmed, it's listed there.

So then I decided to do some research. I also made my own list of S3K composers and their tracks based on what was already confirmed at this point and the only tracks that were left uncredited were the S&K levels (minus Sky Sanctuary), the boss themes (expect for Act 1 Boss from Sonic 3), the competition levels and the Data Select Screen.

I've also been recently listening to some of the Sonic 3D Blast tracks on YT, when I noticed one comment that said the track sounds similar to another track from S&K. That intrigued me. Basically it was that Volcano Valley from 3D Blast sounds very similar to Flying Battery from S&K, and as we all know, Tatsuyuki Maeda composed the Volcano Valley music (among other tracks for 3D Blast) and, according to that guy's list, the music for Flying Battery was composed, what a coincidence, also by Maeda (as well as Sandopolis, Death Egg, Doomsday, Act 2 Boss and the Final Boss aka Big Arms). So I've decided to take a deeper look and analyze both soundtracks back and forth and I have come to a conclusion that not only might that guy have been right about Maeda but also that all of Maeda's tracks from 3D Blast might actually have been reused from Sonic & Knuckles and remixed a little bit, in a similar manner as Jun Senoue who reused his tracks from 3D Blast for Sonic Adventure.

Basically, I've been comparing all of Maeda's tracks from 3D Blast to those supposedly composed by him in S&K and the results are as follows:

- Volcano Valley indeed sounds very similar to Flying Battery, especially if you listen to the bass
- Panic Puppet Zone Act 2 sounds almost identical to the Act 2 Boss
- Gene Gadget has similar notes to Sandopolis
- Rusty Ruin also sounds identical to Death Egg at some places, though the pace is a bit slower
- Boss Battle 1 uses a bass similar to that of the Final Boss, though this one is slower as well
- Diamond Dust is kinda similar to Doomsday in structure (and yeah, I know that last one may come out as a bit of a stretch, but you need a very good ear to notice the similarities)

And that's pretty much it. Nothing confirmed yet, but I think those similarities that I've brought up are at least worth consideration. Also, don't take my word for it, but I think that might actually be all of Maeda's input in composing the S3K music. The other tracks I've mentioned that are yet to have their composer confirmed are most likely done by Tomonori Sawada and Miyoko Takaoka. There's also Sachio Ogawa, who, according to that list, composed the Mushroom Hill music, though that is also yet to be confirmed.

btw, was Balloon Park confirmed to be done by Jun Senoue yet? I'm pretty sure he did that one as well, in fact I can hear a part of it in the Special Stage from 3D Blast. In fact, I believe Jun simply reused 2 of the 3 Bonus Stages with Balloon Park thrown in, and that's how he composed the Sonic 3D Blast Special Stage. Same thing could be said about Twinkle Park Act 2.

I've made a couple of videos on my channel to show those similarities. Here's the link to the playlist: https://www.youtube....7joPsZHkimYA8rc

Funny thing also happened once I posted them. 3 of those videos have received a copyright claim from a party called Streammer and the source music tracks which the party claims I have used are named:
- Sachio Ogawa-Death Egg Zone (From "Sonic & Knuckles")
- Sachio Ogawa-Sonic the Hedgehog (Doomsday Zone)
- Brad Buxer-Sonic the Hedgehog (Sonic 3 Final Boss)
Is any of the composer credits here actally legit? Can anybody confirm if this is true or false?

This post has been edited by Polish Pete: 18 December 2014 - 01:34 AM

#129 User is offline Shalpp 

Posted 08 September 2014 - 03:38 PM

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Heading slightly off the topic of S3 for a bit

View PostPolish Pete, on 27 August 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

3D Blast Special Stage

Are you familiar with Super Fantasy Zone?

The soundtrack was composed by Naoki Kodaka of Sunsoft. The first stage's theme, Picnic, and the 3DB Special Stage are strikingly similar, up to the part before it loops.
This post has been edited by Shalpp: 08 September 2014 - 03:39 PM

#130 User is offline Polish Pete 

Posted 08 September 2014 - 06:29 PM

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View PostShalpp, on 08 September 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

Heading slightly off the topic of S3 for a bit

View PostPolish Pete, on 27 August 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

3D Blast Special Stage

Are you familiar with Super Fantasy Zone?

The soundtrack was composed by Naoki Kodaka of Sunsoft. The first stage's theme, Picnic, and the 3DB Special Stage are strikingly similar, up to the part before it loops.


To be honest, it sounds quite interesting. Not only do I hear a little bit of 3D Blast's special stage, but I also get an Endless Mine feel from it too.

#131 User is offline Lambda 

Posted 21 September 2014 - 12:12 PM

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Or Mario Bros 2 character select? I know this particular video is a remix, but it still highlights the point. :)

#132 User is offline Retroman 

Posted 22 September 2014 - 04:15 AM

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Sample discovery time!

I first posted this discovery on the "This song sounds like X" thread! Really exciting

Blue Cat - Playing Hard To Get 0:00 to 0:27

Windmill Isle Zone Day 0:00 to 0:28

0:29 - 0:38 has to be a sample too

Don't know if that's on the wiki. It's a first. I was excited when I heard it!

How I discovered it:
I simply typed in "Best bossa nova songs" in Youtube and went through the related videos and found it.
This post has been edited by Retroman: 22 September 2014 - 04:27 AM

#133 User is offline muteKi 

Posted 23 September 2014 - 09:03 PM

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That same little drum riff in the start shows up a bunch in Sonic Rush Adventure, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is the source of that riff

#134 User is offline BlackFive 

Posted 26 November 2014 - 04:24 AM

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Hate to bump old threads (I'm lying, of course), but the mystery behind who composed what for Sonic 3 & Knuckles fascinates me, so I'll add my thoughts on InvincibleHedgehog91's playlist.

- It's interesting that the S3 title music is credited to Sawada. This clashes with the possibility that it was composed by Masafumi Ogata, but would explain why he's not credited. Personally, I thought that Sonic 3's title music did sound a bit like a cross between that of Sonic CD and that of 8-bit Sonic 2 (both Ogata compositions), and indeed the very beginning of Sonic Pocket Adventure's arrangement of the Sonic 3 title music sounds almost identical to the title music to 8-bit Sonic 2.

However, the fact that IH91 has credited Sawada made me realise something else. There is a looping riff that plays throughout S3's title screen music that also plays during the intro to Sky Sanctuary. Compare This and This.

- Data Select and Endless Mine being attributed to Milpo is strange, considering it's fairly well-known that the Special Stage music was confirmed to be his only composition.

- I'm pretty certain that Angel Island is a Sawada composition. He, Milpo and Senoue are the only people in the "Sega Sound Team" credits for Sonic 3 that are credited in the 10th Anniversary CD. Milpo's and Senoue's contributions are already known, and if we are to believe that composers who left Wavemaster before 2001 aren't credited, that means that the only other possibilities are Uwabo and Nagao. However, Uwabo didn't actually compose anything, he just assigned/contracted other Wavemaster employees. Nagao, on the other hand, I seem to remember hearing didn't compose any tracks, but merely arranged several existing tracks into their "act 2" remixes. The only other possibility is that Angel Island was composed by Brad Buxer and his cronies, but I wouldn't really call it their style.

-Hyrdocity act 1 and Marble Garden are attributed to the American team. If this is true, it would mean that Carnival Night, Ice Cap and Launch Base's tracks being replaced in S&K collection has nothing to do with being composed by the American team, seeing as Hydrocity and Marble garden are untampered with in S&K collection and are unlockable tracks in Generations. I get the feeling that these credits were made up by IH91, possibly derived from Scirocco crediting Michael Jackson for "Levels 2 and 3" of the game.

-the tracks that are attributed to Tatsuyuki Maeda all seem to be characterised by the same traits- fast pacing, similar bass riffs, lots of echo/reverb, etc. The fact that he composed most of the Sonic & Knuckles half of the soundtrack also explains why Sonic & Knuckles seems to have a different house style music-wise than the Sonic 3 half, despite the fact that all the tracks were composed/implemented around the same time.

-Balloon Park being credited to Senoue seems like guesswork. Yes, slap bass is a trademark of Senoue's work, and you can argue that it sounds a bit like Pleasure Castle, but bear in mind that Senoue has never played Thunder Force 4, so a Senoue track sounding similar to another track doesn't necessarily confirm or deny anything.

#135 User is offline Faseeh 

Posted 26 November 2014 - 06:33 AM

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View PostRetroman, on 22 September 2014 - 04:15 AM, said:

Sample discovery time!
Blue Cat - Playing Hard To Get 0:00 to 0:27

Windmill Isle Zone Day 0:00 to 0:28

0:29 - 0:38 has to be a sample too


Ya know, I have to clarify that the sample is not taken from the song. That's not have SEGA musicians work. They pull samples from a huge library that is shared by all SEGA musicians. This has been stated by many SEGA musicians, including our ex-resident sample king Hideki Nagunama. There's a loop/sample library out there with a file with this guitar riff and that's where all this come from.

For example, the oud in Arid Sand Day is from Apple Loops and so is the harmonica in Rigid Rocks from Sonic Free Riders.

Almost off-topic but this could be helpful in any Sonic/SEGA related sample discovery people want to do.

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