[Maxd]

Sonic has gone down the hole since Sonic Advance on the Nintendo handhelds, except for Sonic Battle, it is a rollercoaster of quality. Each time that Sega releases a new game for a Nintendo handheld we think "This will surely be better than last time!"

Wrong again. Examples:

Player: Sonic Rush Adventure has WiFI?
Devs: Time attack.
Player: Chao?
Devs: How about an annoying as hell talking raccoon?
Player: Isn't Knuckles Australian?

*holds DVD*
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/a...iki/Sonic-1.jpg


Devs: He wasn't our character.
Player: You're Sega
Devs: Yeah
Player: You're Sonic Team
Devs: We're Sonic Team....second string. Everyone else has moved on who made Sonic great. We just try until we think it's not worth the effort, sell it, and see what happens.
Player: Where's the quality in Sonic gone
Devs: With Bean the Dynamite
Player: Is he your character?
Devs: Of course! That's why you never see him after that one game!



Sega and Sonic Team had lost the 2-D spirit of Sonic while trying to port the classic Sonic gameplay to 3-D, and said "Hey, 2-D worked in 3-D, how about backwards?" Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 were good 3-D games. Everything else is so hit-and-miss-but-people-love-Sonic-no-matter-what that Sega hasn't remembered that there is a platforming hero who deserves a second chance.

Billy Hatcher.

It could even use the same freaking engine, the whole boost-mode thing, and how awesome to play a game where you run behind an egg and go through a loop, up and down walls, hatching eggs, cameos like in the GameCube game, and control it with th touchscreen by rolling and egg with the stylus. Sega needs to let Billy Hatcher have a shot. If it doesn't, I think we as a community should.

If there was to be a Billy Hatcher DS, what would you put in it? I put in a vote for a chao assistant, chao garden, and Wi-Fi races and trading. The eggs could be giant chao eggs!

[Toasty]

If you're trying to imply Sonic Rush and Sonic Rush Adventure are bad, you're wrong.

[Tweaker]

I don't really see where you're going with this topic. But if Krisp's interpretation is correct, then I agree with her—the Sonic Rush series was absolutely stellar, and a nice nod towards the spirit of the old 2D platforming Sonic games. Yeah, it isn't exactly the same—it's a re-imagining, if you will—but I think it's as close as we're gonna get to that style of gameplay for a long time.

If you're knocking the story, I didn't find it that bad. It had a very light hearted cartoony plot that you'd expect from Saturday morning cartoons, which wasn't really a bad thing at all. There's nothing filling the usual plotholes that plague the Sonic series, though.

[Granville]

Billy Hatcher DS isn't a bad idea. I guess it would play a bit like Monkey Ball. But I don't agree with the Sonic Rush series being bad. The story may be garbage, but who plays a Sonic game for the story? The gameplay is classic Sonic and is great fun, if not revolutionary (and it's not good to put SEGA and REVOLUTIONARY in the same room). The 3D games generally are bad, but the Rush series is still great. We've no clue how Chronicles will turn out. It'll probably be decent, but wait for reviews before you condemn it.

It's always been up and down with the Sonic series. We got four stellar Sonic games on Genesis (main series) and a rather mediocre one (3D blast). Same goes with the current gen ones. Sonic Adventure 1, 2, and Heroes were great. But Shadow and Sonic 06 bombed. The Sonic Advance and Rush series were good, but then we got that travesty of remakes: Sonic Genesis. The best thing to do is to not buy a game until the reviews come out. Even idiots like Gamespot can be trusted to review a game like Sonic the RIGHT way.

Genesis:

Sonic 1- good
Sonic 2- good
Sonic 3- good
Sonic and Knuckles- good
Sonic 3D Blast- bad

GameGear:

Sonic 1- good
Sonic 2- good
Sonic Chaos- good
Sonic Triple Trouble- good
Sonic Drift- bad
Sonic Labyrinth- bad

The Sega CD, 32X, and Saturn are probably the only systems that had only good Sonic games. Some may dislike Sonic R, but I personally like it. The universal goo is due not to the guality of the lineup, but the lack of games.

Dreamcast:

Sonic Adventure- good
Sonic Adventure 2- good
Sonic Shuffle- bad

GBA:

Sonic Advance- good
Sonic Advance 2- good
Sonic Advance 3- good
Sonic Battle- good
Sonic Genesis- worse than bad......terrible.....worse sonic ever (even more so than sonic 06)

DS:

Sonic Rush- good
Sonic Rush Adventure- good
Sonic Chronicles- unknown

PS2, Gamecube, XBOX:

Sonic Heroes- good (at least on Gamecube)
Shadow- haven't played it, but I think we can trust its badness based on the consensus

PS3, XBOX360:

Sonic 06- bad
Sonic Unleashed- unknown

Wii:

Sonic Secret Rings- good
Sonic Unleashed- unknown

As you can see, the main series of Sonic games have actually been pretty up and down in terms of quality. This is true of the entire history of Sonic barring the very beginning (1991-1995). The bull$hit seems to have started at the add-on revolution.

The same theory is true of a cheeseburger. If you add too much to the sandwich, it'll collapse and leave you with a messed up shirt and a hunger that won't be fulfilled. The remains on the filthy floor are also a good metaphor of Sonic games. They are something that have an allure of past greatness, yet make you sad to know how the pieces have dropped and been soiled. You won't eat them even though you wish you could. You also wish YOU could have made the sandwich instead of the idiot behind the counter which have spawned our revolution of hacks and fangames. We know what we want and can simply go get the raw ingredients from the grocery and make our own cheeseburger at home. Assuming you know how to cook......I mean hack/program, you can make a tasty game all your own. And it's sad when SEGA (the actual restaurant) can't make a good one themselves.

[Overlord]

Granville, on Jun 13 2008, 05:51 PM, said:

words

Well, your chart is completely wrong for a start - I can see several games marked there as good that were sire (Secret Rings springs immediately to mind).

For the record, I consider Rush and SRA good games.

[Jayextee]

Granville, on Jun 13 2008, 05:51 PM, said:

Sonic 3D Blast- bad

How is this worked out again? Not such a great Sonic game per se, but a nice enough sequel to Flicky. You can't just flat out call this game 'bad'. And, it has one of the most awesome soundtracks.

Granville, on Jun 13 2008, 05:51 PM, said:

The Sega CD, 32X, and Saturn are probably the only systems that had only good Sonic games. Some may dislike Sonic R, but I personally like it. The universal goo is due not to the guality of the lineup, but the lack of games.

Well regarding the Mega CD, a 100% success rate with one game isn't so bad, and is many Sonic fans' personal favourite ever, myself included. But if the Saturn had 'only good games', are you somehow forgetting that it also had Sonic 3D Blast? And that's "bad"... right? :P

Granville, on Jun 13 2008, 05:51 PM, said:

Sonic Advance- good
Sonic Advance 2- good
Sonic Advance 3- good
Sonic Battle- good

He didn't just do what I think he did, did he? Naw, wait. He did. He somehow forgot how, while none of these are abysmal at all, they're all half-baked and underdeveloped at best.

Granville, on Jun 13 2008, 05:51 PM, said:

Sonic Heroes- good

What?

[P.P.A.]

It's late and perhaps I'm not reading the whole of this topic until tomorrow, but one thing I can say regardless:

Sonic Rush is one of the most awful piles of shit the Sonic series has ever spawned. It dropped all the elements that made the old Sonic games great in the first place and replaced them with bland, gameplay-less rollercoaster rides that consist of almost nothing but holding right, boost pads and springs, and bottomless pits. it's the most abysmal rape of the classic Sonic gameplay I've ever seen.

For the GBA games, my rankings would go:
Pinball Party > Advance > Battle > Advance 2 > Advance 3.

Anyway I'm missing the point of the topic and am tired, so I'll post again tomorrow and/or edit this post here. Good night.
EDIT., Ah screw it, it's the internet and I have to announce my worthless opinion. Read the thread, here'd be the list of mine (which is offtopic as well but whatever):

Mega Drive
Sonic 1- Awesome.
Sonic 2- Good.
Sonic 3- Err, okay.
Sonic and Knuckles- Great.
Sonic 3D Blast- Rather bad.

Master System + Game Gear
Sonic 1- Awesome music, okay everything else.
Sonic 2- Good.
Sonic Chaos- Great.
Sonic Triple Trouble- Awesome.
Sonic Blast- SHIT
Sonic Drift- Dunno.
Sonic Drift 2- Dunno.
Sonic Labyrinth- Okay for what it was.
Tails' Adventures- Nice.
Tails' Skypatrol- Pretty OH FUCK THIS IS THE HARDEST GAME EVER

Mega-CD
Sonic CD- BEST GAME EVER

32X
Chaotix- Awesome.

Saturn
Sonic R- Awesome. Almost fantastic, but it's got a bit too few courses.
Sonic 3D- Unfortunately haven#t played it yet, but the soundtrack is sex. <3 Rusty Ruin


Dreamcast
Sonic Adventure- Okay.
Sonic Adventure 2- Awesome.
Sonic Shuffle- Crap.

GBA
Sonic Advance- Great.
Sonic Advance 2- Meh, ok I guess.
Sonic Advance 3- Okay.
Sonic Battle- Good.
Sonic Pinball Party- Awesome.

DS
Sonic Rush- SHIT
Sonic Rush Adventure- ?

PS2, Gamecube, XBOX
Sonic Heroes- Shit.
Shadow- Slightly better than hHeroes, but still crap.

PS3, XBOX360
Sonic 06- Sonic's levels: Good to Great. Everyhting else: Bad.

Wii
Sonic Secret Rings- ?

This post has been edited by P.P.A.: 14 June 2008 - 03:14 AM

[Tweaker]

love.self.hate, on Jun 13 2008, 03:31 PM, said:

Granville, on Jun 13 2008, 05:51 PM, said:

Sonic Advance- good
Sonic Advance 2- good
Sonic Advance 3- good
Sonic Battle- good

He didn't just do what I think he did, did he? Naw, wait. He did. He somehow forgot how, while none of these are abysmal at all, they're all half-baked and underdeveloped at best.

Granville, on Jun 13 2008, 05:51 PM, said:

Sonic Heroes- good

What?

Actually, I agree with him—I liked both the Advance series and Heroes. They were very true to the original Sonic formula when it came to level design and overall gameplay (perhaps except for Sonic Advance 2). They weren't the best games ever, but they had a personality that showed a lot of promise.

When people go bashing the Advance series, I swear they're just being pedantic. There's nothing horrible about them, even if they do have their flaws.

[Jayextee]

Tweaker, on Jun 13 2008, 09:43 PM, said:

Actually, I agree with him—I liked both the Advance series and Heroes. They were very true to the original Sonic formula when it came to level design and overall gameplay (perhaps except for Sonic Advance 2). They weren't the best games ever, but they had a personality that showed a lot of promise.

When people go bashing the Advance series, I swear they're just being pedantic. There's nothing horrible about them, even if they do have their flaws.

Hence I wouldn't actually bash any of the Advance games really, but I can't bring myself to state them as 'good' either.

Sonic Heroes is enjoyable sometimes, but I've really got to be in the mood to wrestle with it.

[PC2]

I only really liked the first Sonic Advance... It had the perfect engine and perfect level design. In fact, it was probably what I'd consider the closest (official) thing we have to "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" after S&K. The sequel was just an attempt to make Sonic faster, which was completely unnecessary, and the levels weren't design with any real strategy elements in mind... Just hold right and avoid randomly placed giant chasms. :P Sonic Advance 3 could've been better, but they recycled Sonic's insane speed from Sonic Advance 2, and the levels were designed more like they wanted you to run just a bit slower, more like the speed in the original Sonic Advance... Sonic Heroes was good, I don't really see how people don't like it. At first all I was hearing was "glitch havoc", but in all honesty, I don't ever remember encountering any glitches in the game.

As for Sonic Rush and Sonic Rush Adventure, I can't say I have many complaints. I don't really get how people didn't like the storyline. I thought it was cute, not afraid to be cartoony and humorous, and kept you interested, but never confused, the way a Sonic storyline should be - what, was in not "epic" enough for you or something? I'll admit that SRA came kind of close to Sonic Advance 2 level design-wise, but all the extra features, such as the water-ski portions and mission mode, make the game a lot more fun imo. The bosses were also pretty innovative and fun.

The Billy Hatcher DS idea is neat, but the way you executed this thread was kind of immature imo... No offense, but you're basically complaining that the series as gone downhill, we haven't seen <old character> since <time>, <new character> supposedly sucks, <game> supposedly sucks, SEGA should bring back <old character>, SEGA should port <game> to <system>, etc. All arguments we've all heard before 3,000 times over.

...Oh, and just as an FYI, Marine was supposed to be annoying. =P

This post has been edited by PC2: 13 June 2008 - 06:06 PM

[Maxd]

It just pisses me off that Sega can't make a new franchise and Sonic is being too over-used. Sonic Rush was good, but it still was just a little...left-you-hanging-feeling. Billy Hatcher is my favorite 3-D game, and if it came out for Wii, DS, or even before Super Mario Sunshine it could have hauled ass. Also, dialog in the more recent games just isn't as catchy as "Gotta juice!" Sega brought back Somba de Amigo, NiGHTS, maybe it's time for Toe Jam and Earl to have a DS go-at-it. I just don't like the newer Sonic games, Heroes was innovative, Shadow the Hedgehog was an effort to try to fill the Adventure storyline and introduce new mechanics that were good, but were cliched in use in Sonic 06. Sonic and the Secret Rings was interesting, but could very wel have been a better game, like Aladdin's Flying Carpet or something, with its art style. Sega should have Sonic Team go to a bar, get so stoned that they feel hungry, they slump into a Toys-R-Us, eat some stuffed animals, regurgitate, and come up with some new franchises...or almost as good, constant Sonic characters. I'm sorry I was unclear earlier today, my mom and I got into a fight about what I'm supposed to do to get a job, and what I should do to kill time. I said internet, thinking of this place (the forums), she thought I was inferring porn, so getting angry can explain itself. Sorry about bashing Sonic Advance, but it should be credited for the following things: no new characters, original bosses, Sonic 2 mode, Sonics feet whir in a circle when he runs (classic), and the gameplay was mildly pleasant. It just doesn't seem to fit with the grinding rails, and no Super Sonic gameplay after the last level, and Amy. Sorry about rambling, but I think Billy Hatcher should get a better shot than what it got. Also, Super Mario RPG was good, Sonic might be, but love plots will only inspire more lonely artists to draw Sonic porn. Sonic Team should have an Alumni make a game. That would make my dysfunctional family and cruddy Sonic game collection (I have only 3 real games, but many roms) a bunch better. I just can't stand the new Sonic Team and how much they over-use Sonic and Sega can't ever recover the loss of dropping out of the console war.

[Jayextee]

Ristar DS. Sega never return my calls, though.

No, seriously. That game is just asking for a d-pad/buttons as move, L/R as jump and stylus+screen for Ristar to stretch and grab wherever you touch. I suggest this because, much as I desperately wanted* to like Billy Hatcher, it was pure fat-saturated floating faeces.

*; Because, being way too big a fan of NiGHTS, I really wanted that GBA demo somehow.

[Ashura96]

Sorry but I find it hard to agree with the OP.

Then again my friend complains that NONE of the Advance and Rush games use sound effects for spikes that pop out from the ground.

[BlazeHedgehog]

The Sonic Advance games were kind of questionable. Sonic Rush was still kind of weird, but obviously a step in the right direction. Sonic Rush Adventure is pretty much the fully-matured evolution of a gameplay ideal that began with Sonic Advance 2.

Ultra-fast crazy speed with high-flying acrobatics and a vaguely x-treme-sports-esque trick system.

For some people, all they want is to play Sonic 3 & Knuckles again with new levels. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but those people have to learn to accept what Sonic has become, too. Sonic Rush Adventure may not be perfect, but it needs to be the template for "new Sonic" from here on out (until they make one that's better than SRA).

[Toasty]

Quote

Sonic Rush is one of the most awful piles of shit the Sonic series has ever spawned. It dropped all the elements that made the old Sonic games great in the first place and replaced them with bland, gameplay-less rollercoaster rides that consist of almost nothing but holding right, boost pads and springs, and bottomless pits.

Oh please, if you're going to bring that up, you can apply that to every single 3D Sonic game.

Quote

How is this worked out again? Not such a great Sonic game per se, but a nice enough sequel to Flicky. You can't just flat out call this game 'bad'. And, it has one of the most awesome soundtracks.

I'm really tired of seeing Sonic 3D Blast getting bashed all the time too. I would play it over Sonic Heroes any day.