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Sonic Mania (Switch, PS4, Xbox One, PC) Developed by Christian Whitehead, Headcannon and PagodaWest

#10516 User is offline Laughingcow 

Posted 13 December 2017 - 05:25 PM

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View PostDark Sonic, on 13 December 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

View PostRoller, on 12 December 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Stealth already went over the level transition thing on his stream, didn't he? Paraphrased, it's something like "sometimes stuff just needs to go to get it out the door". No grand conspiracy or major mark of shame, it's just game development that not everything people want to get done necessarily gets done.

Was anyone else surprised that all of the level transitions took control away from you in Mania. Sonic 3 & Knuckles had some automated ones for sure but those usually amounted to cinematic things outside of typical gameplay. But when the transition was just like "run right and go through tunnel of snow" they let the player take care of that. There were at least a few cutscenes that easily could have been player controlled, particularly CPZ 2 > SOZ 1, MSZ 2 > OOZ 1, LRZ 1 > LRZ 2, and Knuckles LRZ 2 > MMZ 1. Wouldn't that have been easier on the developers if they just let the player take care of those scenes?

I vote NO for manual level transitions. I remember way back when in Carnival Night when we got to the canon as a kid and not knowing what the hell to do. I kept shooting the canon upward for at least twenty minutes as my brothers and I scratched our heads on what to fucking do.

On the adding of level transitions in general, we live in an age where game updating exists. Sega could by all means commission them to add the missing level transitions at any time but I think the stinger of such a thing would be doing so on multiple consoles. If it was just Steam then it would be significantly easier but Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft have their fees and approval process.

Only realistic possibility would be Taxman and/or Stealth doing something in their spare time but I doubt that. Second possibility would be someone else doing it for them unofficially.

#10517 User is offline sonicblur 

Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:28 PM

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View PostWolf Rogers, on 13 December 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

plus with no Denuvo they could do a Mac/Linux port which would've been another userbase to take advantage of, as well as allowed them to do bug fixes in these versions which they could've ported back.

Denuvo is not an obstacle to Mac/Linux support. That was another lie people have been spreading as a fake reason to get it removed. I have only played the PC version on macOS via WINE, multiple times through. I have never actually played it under Windows. The obstacle to multi-platform support is that Sega has never done it before with a Sonic title and doesn't want to, despite the fact that CW has ported Retro Engine to macOS in the past so some of the work is already done.

The reason it should be removed is because the game eats around 15% CPU time for me when it should be eating up about 2%. It sucks because I tried playing it on my laptop on a plane ride once and it used up about 10% of my battery in under 30 minutes, when I normally can watch an entire 90 minute film and only drop about 8% of my battery life.
This post has been edited by sonicblur: 13 December 2017 - 08:29 PM

#10518 User is offline Ashram 

Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:30 PM

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People are mistaking a "bug fix" patch with a "features/update" patch. Adding a Super Sonic button or other level transitions isn't a "bug fix".

#10519 User is offline Sir_mihael 

Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:30 AM

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View Postbig smile, on 13 December 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

  • Zone transitions (Especially FBZ -> Press Garden and Hyrdo -> Mirage Salon)


I always felt Flying Battery > Press Garden was the easiest one to imagine without a transition. Since Flying Battery can fly anywhere, it almost speaks for itself.

I think Stardust Speedway > Hydrocity is the biggest one for me.
It would have been great to see a transition of Sonic seeing Titanic Monarch in the distance and getting ready to gun straight to it, only to be Ruby warped off Little Planet by Heavy King or something.

Unrelated, but did Tax/Stealth ever give a reason for Angel Island being down on the ocean again at the beginning?

#10520 User is offline Roller 

Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:29 AM

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That would've been a great concept, and easily sell the plot much better. It's a shame things didn't fall into place to make it happen.

Re Angel Island - Stealth's advice on the stream was "if you don't understand something, the Ruby did it". Which isn't necessarily helpful, but at least it fills in all those plotholes.

#10521 User is offline Hitlersaurus Christ 

Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:31 AM

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Yeah he mentioned Angel island in particular was because the Ruby made it fall IIRC. I know it was also said somewhere that some of the levels were affected by the Ruby and some weren't.

Now that we have some understanding of how the Phantom Ruby works from Forces (though it's not exactly consistent) I'm guessing Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and possibly Studiopolis are virtual reality, as well as Stardust Speedway. I'm gonna go ahead and assume everything afterwards is real. That takes care of the SS to HC transition, with SS disappearing and them falling into the real HC since they've been on Angel island the whole time. They'd then take the Tornado (left in Angel Island at the beginning of the game) to Mirage Saloon, and Oil Ocean is a different one from Sonic 2, just another oil rig built by Eggman. The Little Planet is either warped there by the Ruby (somehow) or is just passing by Earth again like in Sonic 4.

#10522 User is offline big smile 

Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:25 AM

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View PostSir_mihael, on 14 December 2017 - 04:30 AM, said:

I always felt Flying Battery > Press Garden was the easiest one to imagine without a transition. Since Flying Battery can fly anywhere, it almost speaks for itself.


The reason I wanted to see this was because in S3, Sonic was supposed to break of the door of Flying Battery and then snow board into Ice Cap.
Given that Press Garden is a snow level, this would have been the perfect opportunity to realize that idea (although I'm surprised Sonic Team didn't have Sonic sand board to Sandopolis in S&K).


View PostSir_mihael, on 14 December 2017 - 04:30 AM, said:

I think Stardust Speedway > Hydrocity is the biggest one for me.


For me, the biggest one is Hydrocity -> Mirage Saloon. Upto this point, Knuckles seems to be having a separate adventure (Note that he starts in a different part of GHZ). But suddenly he's sitting on the Tornado? When did he meet up with Sonic & Tails? And why did the trio take the Tornado after Hydrocity anyway?

#10523 User is offline makoeyes 

Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:58 AM

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View PostHitlersaurus Christ, on 14 December 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

Yeah he mentioned Angel island in particular was because the Ruby made it fall IIRC. I know it was also said somewhere that some of the levels were affected by the Ruby and some weren't.

Now that we have some understanding of how the Phantom Ruby works from Forces (though it's not exactly consistent) I'm guessing Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and possibly Studiopolis are virtual reality, as well as Stardust Speedway. I'm gonna go ahead and assume everything afterwards is real. That takes care of the SS to HC transition, with SS disappearing and them falling into the real HC since they've been on Angel island the whole time. They'd then take the Tornado (left in Angel Island at the beginning of the game) to Mirage Saloon, and Oil Ocean is a different one from Sonic 2, just another oil rig built by Eggman. The Little Planet is either warped there by the Ruby (somehow) or is just passing by Earth again like in Sonic 4.


There's nothing at all to say the Phantom Ruby was creating virtual reality copies of anything in Mania. Since it was never described or made to function as such in that game. The Ruby was capable of giving life and sentience to robots; clearly the Phantom Ruby was working much differently than when it went to Modern Sonic in Forces. Shoehorning the strange VR concept into Mania makes no sense and flies in the face of the story.

For one, the Ruby only made virtual reality copies when it was actively being used by someone to do so. The entire premise of the Ruby was it's ability to warp objects through space and time. That's what Ruby Mist was in the first place. Secondly, by the very nature and consequences of all that happened, the Phantom Ruby warped and effected all things that happened on a real level. It's why the Hardboiled Heavies came into existence. It's why the game ended on Little Planet, and the Ruby is why Sonic jumped through time and space. Finally, the Ruby is why the Titanic Monarch blew up. The game or it's places weren't just an illusion.

For whatever bad writing reason, ST decided to add a strange VR concept to what the Ruby was capable of doing in their game. But that doesn't mean that's how it was in it's original game/story.

#10524 User is offline Sir_mihael 

Posted 14 December 2017 - 11:25 AM

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Sonic Team: "The Phantom Ruby is simply a VR gem that creates illusions"
Also Sonic Team: "The Phantom Ruby warped Classic Sonic from his home dimension to the world of Sonic Forces!"

Even in Forces, the Phantom Ruby contradicts itself.

I feel like, you can hand-wave it by claiming that even the characters in-lore don't ever know the actual powers of the Ruby, and only come to their own conclusion.

Tails comes to his 'VR' answer and everyone's happy with that because to them it makes sense at the time, but this in itself could be another delusion of the Phantom Ruby, by creating an illusion of a 'solution'.

Meanwhile the actual truth is "fuck you I'm the phantom ruby i'll contradict myself again in sonic mania 2" and I'm happy with that.
This post has been edited by Sir_mihael: 14 December 2017 - 11:29 AM

#10525 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 14 December 2017 - 11:40 AM

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I guess they just thought the Chaos Emeralds weren't fucky enough so they had to make a new macguffin. Please though, no more macguffins. We have Time Stones and Wisps and Chaos Rings and Super Emeralds and what have you. Just use the Chaos Emeralds or learn how to write a story.

Speaking of the Phantom Ruby though in Forces, is the sand in Green Hill an illusion or is that real? Either way I have questions.

#10526 User is online dot.kh 

Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:11 PM

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What will happen between Forces and the next game? Sonic Teams's free to do whatever they want plot wise. But yeah, Green Hill Zone should become normal again. It's not funny ok

#10527 User is offline makoeyes 

Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:52 PM

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View PostSir_mihael, on 14 December 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

Sonic Team: "The Phantom Ruby is simply a VR gem that creates illusions"
Also Sonic Team: "The Phantom Ruby warped Classic Sonic from his home dimension to the world of Sonic Forces!"

Even in Forces, the Phantom Ruby contradicts itself.

I feel like, you can hand-wave it by claiming that even the characters in-lore don't ever know the actual powers of the Ruby, and only come to their own conclusion.

Tails comes to his 'VR' answer and everyone's happy with that because to them it makes sense at the time, but this in itself could be another delusion of the Phantom Ruby, by creating an illusion of a 'solution'.

Meanwhile the actual truth is "fuck you I'm the phantom ruby i'll contradict myself again in sonic mania 2" and I'm happy with that.


I try not to shit on Sonic Forces but the whole Phantom Ruby explanation/contradiction is so ridiculous and just unnecessary.

The Phantom Ruby can clearly warp space and time. It rivals the power of the Chaos Emeralds by itself, to the point it can punch a hole in reality and warp itself and Sonic to the future. Hell, Infinite gets it grafted onto his chest and can fly, shoot energy beams, and do all bunch of crazy, overpowered crap. And what does Sonic Team do?

Sonic Team: SO LET'S MAKE IT AN ILLUSION ROCK!

Like. That's just dumb. And it contradicts the entire purpose and means of why Classic Sonic is in Forces in the first place. Why even have the returning enemies in Forces be illusionary constructs and not just the real thing?

It's just a vapid and inexplicable choice.

Your explanation makes perfect sense though. It's just a shame that it's even needed. :v:

#10528 User is offline Sean Evans 

Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:39 PM

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What? Are you geeks still arguing about this haha. The series contradicts itself all the time. Is it really that implausible that some rando gem can just do different things whenever it needs to? Why would seven gemstones that make you ultra strong and golden suddenly have the ability to warp time, or put the earth back together, or bring the dead back to life? That shit's fine, but a gem making illusions that warps people through time and space (with the Chaos Emerald btw, that's the only way you even get that ending) is somehow an inexcusable contrivance? I don't get you guys sometimes lol.

#10529 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 14 December 2017 - 07:01 PM

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Idk I'm just like too many gems that do things. Considering how the chaos emerald weren't in Forces at all, they could have just used those and kept the plot the same.

#10530 User is offline Adamis 

Posted 14 December 2017 - 07:08 PM

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View Postmakoeyes, on 14 December 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

Why even have the returning enemies in Forces be illusionary constructs and not just the real thing?


Mania did the same with Bean, Bark and Fang.

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