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Sonic Adventure 2 Hacking Now a general SA2 Hax thread

#946 User is offline Saturnine Sable 

Posted 10 November 2017 - 12:55 AM

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this may have been discussed before so pardon me if so, but has there been any attempt to restore the lighting, models, and missing objects from the dreamcast version of the game? amongst other smaller things like some audio becoming fucked due to the cutscenes staying at 60 FPS at all times

#947 User is offline Shaddy the guy 

Posted 10 November 2017 - 10:29 PM

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I'm sure there's been an attempt to restore some of it, but SA2 isn't as versatile or at least is more cryptic than SADX from a hacking standpoint. The ports are also better, though they still have problems. I'd love to see a DC project as much as the next guy but I don't know a damn thing about modding and I don't know how much anyone actually wants to do it

#948 User is offline Jmtshaw 

Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:10 PM

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It might not be much but a while ago I remade a few story select graphics and cleaned up the stage select background:


The main problem I find with all versions of SA2B though is the amount of lighting and effects missing in cutscenes that just make them look awful:

Spoiler

And then there's added laziness in the PC port, like using a video of the game's original intro instead of going in and fixing the actual event that still exists in the game's files.
This post has been edited by Jmtshaw: 11 November 2017 - 01:13 PM

#949 User is offline Tadashi 

Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:15 AM

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More than anything, I'd love to have separate volume sliders for music, voices and sfx. Something's very wrong with the sound mixing in the PC version. Just load up Aquatic Mine, the water dripping sound is drowning out everything.

#950 User is offline Neo 

Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:49 AM

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View PostTadashi, on 12 November 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

More than anything, I'd love to have separate volume sliders for music, voices and sfx. Something's very wrong with the sound mixing in the PC version. Just load up Aquatic Mine, the water dripping sound is drowning out everything.

That's because the positional volume leveling is broken, so everything sounds like it's either right up against you or infinitely far away.

#951 User is offline Krigo 

Posted 12 November 2017 - 05:30 PM

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View PostNeo, on 12 November 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:

View PostTadashi, on 12 November 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

More than anything, I'd love to have separate volume sliders for music, voices and sfx. Something's very wrong with the sound mixing in the PC version. Just load up Aquatic Mine, the water dripping sound is drowning out everything.

That's because the positional volume leveling is broken, so everything sounds like it's either right up against you or infinitely far away.

I'd love to see that fixed one day. The 50% SFX volume mod improves it, but everything still sounds really off.
This post has been edited by Krigo: 12 November 2017 - 05:31 PM

#952 User is offline Chibisteven 

Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:17 AM

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It's pretty obvious that the members of Sonic Retro should be doing the ports for these games because of all the stuff SEGA manages to break when porting in their usual half-assed style...

#953 User is offline Blue Spikeball 

Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:59 AM

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View PostChibisteven, on 13 November 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

It's pretty obvious that the members of Sonic Retro should be doing the ports for these games because of all the stuff SEGA manages to break when porting in their usual half-assed style...

The Taxman ports/remakes broke a number of stuff too.

#954 User is offline Morph 

Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:14 AM

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View PostChibisteven, on 13 November 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

It's pretty obvious that the members of Sonic Retro should be doing the ports for these games because of all the stuff SEGA manages to break when porting in their usual half-assed style...


I'd be down, as long as this means they let me use advanced DirectX 11.1/12 and/or OpenGL features to implement (optional) OIT for Dreamcast games. Seriously. I'd do it.

#955 User is offline MainMemory 

Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:27 AM

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View PostBlue Spikeball, on 13 November 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

View PostChibisteven, on 13 November 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

It's pretty obvious that the members of Sonic Retro should be doing the ports for these games because of all the stuff SEGA manages to break when porting in their usual half-assed style...

The Taxman ports/remakes broke a number of stuff too.

With a remake, you're, well, remaking the game from scratch. For a port, all you have to do is not break the stuff that's already there and make adjustments for the new target platform.

#956 User is offline Blue Spikeball 

Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:47 AM

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View PostMainMemory, on 13 November 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

View PostBlue Spikeball, on 13 November 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

View PostChibisteven, on 13 November 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

It's pretty obvious that the members of Sonic Retro should be doing the ports for these games because of all the stuff SEGA manages to break when porting in their usual half-assed style...

The Taxman ports/remakes broke a number of stuff too.

With a remake, you're, well, remaking the game from scratch. For a port, all you have to do is not break the stuff that's already there and make adjustments for the new target platform.

Weren't the Taxman remakes largely based on the original games' source code, though?
This post has been edited by Blue Spikeball: 13 November 2017 - 11:50 AM

#957 User is offline Clownacy 

Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:05 PM

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No? The way I understand it, Stealth provided some reverse-engineering insight, but that was only when it was absolutely necessary. They prefered to redo things their own way, which led to some inaccuracies. They never had access to the source code, either. Just disassemblies.
This post has been edited by Clownacy: 13 November 2017 - 12:06 PM

#958 User is offline Blue Spikeball 

Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:13 PM

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They had access to the disassembled source code, and I thought they largely based the Retro Engine on it.

#959 User is offline Clownacy 

Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:55 PM

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Stealth's blog goes over his and Taxman's differences in approaching the remasters, namely:

Quote

[...]This is actually where our different methods come into play. By preference, Taxman has acted mostly on the basis of observation, carefully observing what happens at run-time and then reproducing it with his own methods. When I was brought into these projects, one of the reasons was that my understanding of Sonic the Hedgehog came from an understanding of the original assembly code itself, and experience with reading and manipulating it. This meant that I was able to take specific methods from the original code and apply them to whatever else I was doing, which in this case, was re-creating the games using the RSDK. It was especially handy when observation couldn't readily, or at all, explain what was happening. Observation also has its merits, though, as it's a great time-saver in straight-forward cases, and there are advantages to writing your own code without bias, such as the potential for more-easily creating cleaner and more versatile code, and guaranteeing a from-the-ground-up understanding of the method. That's not to mention how repeated observation can expose strange exceptions. The code, too, could easily expose an obscure behavior in some cases, or at the very least, be used to easily obtain exact values. I tend to move between the two as it feels appropriate, and between the two of us, we seem to catch pretty much everything.


And according to the beginning of this, Stealth was brought in when the base engine was already complete, and just there to make it a 'stronger build'. Some objects were probably ported to the Retro Engine, but things like crushing being too strict I imagine is because the relavent code was written from scratch.

Making the remasters in general is more complex than porting SA2, particularly because the classic games have to have their code translated from ASM to something like C, which is a massive window for error. Not to mention, the ported code would then have to be rebased on top of the Retro Engine. With SA2, the objects and the like are already written in a suitable language, and don't need moving to a new engine.

With SA2, you mainly just have to worry about porting the game to a new graphical/audio backend, which the Retro Engine was also dealing with on top of everything else. By comparision, Taxman and Stealth were practically making a game from the ground up, following someone else's blueprints, while SA2 was a straightforward port. Basically what MainMemory said.

#960 User is offline Blue Spikeball 

Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:53 PM

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So it's partially based on the original code, and partially based on new code that recreates the original behavior. I suspected as much, but it's nice to hear the devs' account. Thanks for looking it up.

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