Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board: Sonic Forces - Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board

Jump to content

Hey there, Guest!  (Log In · Register) Help
  • 214 Pages +
  • ◄ First
  • 212
  • 213
  • 214
    Locked
    Locked Forum

Sonic Forces

#3196 User is offline PkR 

Posted Today, 01:32 AM

  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: 04-August 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Project:SADX Dreamcast Conversion, The Emeralds' Awakening
始動 (shidou) is just "start", often associated with movement, similar to "get something going" or "initiate". The message doesn't explicitly mention development, it only says "Sonic 2017 Project start!", nothing more.

#3197 User is offline Deef 

Posted Today, 05:23 AM

  • Posts: 596
  • Joined: 20-February 10
I found it amusing that people ever used the "It's too early to judge" line the moment we got our first good look at this game.
I find it hard to believe that some are still trying to use it now.

Come on, this is Sonic Team literally hitting their prime, at their stumbling-in-the-dark best. It's like we started to breathe a little lighter after a few barely-ok modern games and Sonic Team saw that, didn't like it, and are intentionally trying to outdo themselves while pretending it's not on purpose.

We've got faux-classic gameplay, which was unbelievably poor in Generations already. We've got modern gameplay which hasn't ever been used to carry a full game because it genuinely can't carry a full game. And we've got deliberately unfocused gameplay, which doesn't even pretend to have an inspired hook; it's just generic platformer with completely stale moves and powers that no-one would think of buying on its own merits. Forget the weird-ass Infinity trailer, the #f***GreenHill meme, the completely misguided GHZ music, or the obvious panicked Generations copy and scramble for something that sells. Ignoring all that and looking purely at gameplay, we already know enough about how each of the 3 styles is going to play. Sonic Forces is going to be as dull as man boobs. THEN add on all the hilariously bad choices being made with it. I love how people genuinely can't tell if parts are self-parody or not.

I could be 100% wrong and this game doesn't turn out to be a critical hot mess of facepalm, and I would still look less stupid than people who still currently think it's too early to judge.
This post has been edited by Deef: Today, 09:11 AM

#3198 User is offline Sir_mihael 

Posted Today, 08:17 AM

  • Posts: 212
  • Joined: 26-June 11
  • Gender:Male

View PostDeef, on Today, 05:23 AM, said:

I love how people genuinely can't tell if parts are self-parody or not.

Whilst I personally think Forces is playing it straight, just like Shadow the Hedgehog did, I do feel now more than ever, this does feel a bit like it's a bit of a joke, especially as Sonic Team have been aware of the reaction to previous attempts to edge the fuck up.

Also I feel Sonic as a brand at the moment is full of mixed messages. The Social Media side of things is constantly playing the self-aware card, and we can see with the likes of Mania that the fanbase is slowly having a bigger influence on Sonic Team now more than ever.

So when people see Infinite and his ow-the-edge theme, they're going to be thinking "Oh, this is the stuff that the Sonic Twitter and the Sonic Boom show poke fun at, this must be part of the joke, haha".

And then they play the game.

Oh...

#3199 User is offline Deef 

Posted Today, 09:07 AM

  • Posts: 596
  • Joined: 20-February 10
*nods*

It's just bonkers. I too think Forces is playing it straight. There isn't enough to suggest otherwise, while there is plenty to suggest that the designers have completely lost confidence. Literally every part of Forces that we've seen is a gimmick that looks reactive and looks desperate. Those words sound like I'm being emphatic, but that is really simply what it looks like, and that's the opposite look of a game that's riffing on self-awareness.

Edit -- That is, if there are actual game designers even getting any say in this. The orders-from-above smell is really strong with this one.
This post has been edited by Deef: Today, 09:13 AM

#3200 User is offline Sir_mihael 

Posted Today, 12:53 PM

  • Posts: 212
  • Joined: 26-June 11
  • Gender:Male
I feel like it's almost a rebound reaction. Sonic Team have spent since Unleashed trying undo this negative image of Sonic being this 'too serious' and fanfic-like series from Shadow and 06.
Now thanks to light-hearted games like Colors, Gens and Lost World as well as the Twitter, the general public is thinking better of it all. Sonic Team have put on a friendly mask that's slowly been straining under the pressure of wanting to do a proper hardcode anime-plot Sonic Adventure again*, and now the mask has come off and the EDGE is pouring out at an alarming rate.

*Edit: i just re-read my post and realised I should have said 'urge to make a proper serious plot SA again'

No doubt Mania coming out makes Iizuka/Sonic Team feel like they can get away with it more now, yet still they add Classic Sonic as a safety net so at least one third of the game won't be completely trashed in reviews in a worst-case scenario.
This post has been edited by Sir_mihael: Today, 06:24 PM

#3201 User is offline saintminya 

Posted Today, 01:20 PM

  • Posts: 121
  • Joined: 05-February 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Carolina
  • Project:music production, mental archiving.
I'm rather confused by what you mean Sir_mihael with the "pressure of wanting to do a proper hardcore anime-plot Sonic Adventure again". The edge factor didn't start til Adventure 2. I wouldn't exactly call SA hardcore, but it did take cues from anime in its presentation.

I totally agree with the sentiment of the Classic gameplay being the best recieved, but I also have this quirky belief that the CaC gameplay will end up being well-enough recieved once everyone gets completely past the face value.

#3202 User is offline Blue Blood 

Posted Today, 02:48 PM

  • Posts: 4236
  • Joined: 15-January 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Wiki edits:6

View PostDeef, on Today, 09:07 AM, said:

*nods*

It's just bonkers. I too think Forces is playing it straight. There isn't enough to suggest otherwise, while there is plenty to suggest that the designers have completely lost confidence. Literally every part of Forces that we've seen is a gimmick that looks reactive and looks desperate. Those words sound like I'm being emphatic, but that is really simply what it looks like, and that's the opposite look of a game that's riffing on self-awareness.

Edit -- That is, if there are actual game designers even getting any say in this. The orders-from-above smell is really strong with this one.

Every time that we see something of this game, it just drives home my suspicion that it's built entirely on executive orders. Colours and Generations so far stand as the only 3D Sonic games to get (and maintain) universally good reception from fans and critics. But following those games we got Lost World and Rise of Lyric. Both bombed on the market, and RoL has racked up an even worse Metacritic score than the infamous '06. Lost World still only managed some fairly polarising, but majorly middling, scores. So without really understanding why those games were such flops - Wii U exclusivity and poor management and direction from both SEGA and Sonic Team - the powers-that-be have ordered "Generations 2 but darker and with fan characters for the children". I don't think that this is the game that Sonic Teams wanted to make at all.

Mania on the other hand... it's a true passion project. I would love to know the full ins and outs of how it got greenlit, and what SEGA at large make of it. It's getting praise because it's a genuinely good game that's aiming to deliver something special. Forces is a cynical product that kind of seems to be backfiring already.
This post has been edited by Blue Blood: Today, 02:50 PM

#3203 User is online RikohZX 

Posted Today, 04:41 PM

  • Posts: 96
  • Joined: 18-March 17
  • Gender:Male
I think what bothers me about Forces is a mix of the lack of self-awareness and the heavy scarcity of info. Mania's one thing, a large factor involving that game is the mystery of its contents given that it's straight-up a classic game with a minimal story, but Forces tricklefeeds snippets of gameplay and story as if trying to build up hype. Instead all they've really done is make people lean back on the fence instead of forwards. The entire music video and reveal of Infinite was, as many noted, bordering on self-parody with how on the nose it was, but since it's Sonic Team I get the feeling it's meant to be played straight even despite Pontac's bend for making a saturday morning kid's show with Sonic. Nothing about the Modern Sonic or Classic Sonic gameplay looks much refined, if at all, from Generations or Colors, and that's when they actually show gameplay given that we've effectively seen one Modern stage, one Classic stage, two Custom Hero stages and a boss fight, but still have absolutely no idea as to how the game's structure is going to be overall beyond haphazard guessing at the menus; that it's all from the presumed early/beginning of the game is reasonable, but that it's almost all cripplingly shorter than even the speedrun-emphasized Generations stuff at times is legitimately concerning (personally I get the feeling they're using the three playstyles as a Colors mini-stages excuse setup). And the stage design for that only Classic Sonic level in particular just looks like absolute garbage, which doesn't imply anything good for later things until we actually see them.

Pretty much every single positive that Forces has shown so far has a consequential negative to it somewhere. There's been no strong, notable reason of why Forces sticks out on its own, why people should really buy it besides the Custom Hero, and what they do release are so minuscule that it's like they want people talking about the game by debating over what all it could be or mean. Yet very little of it encourages positive feelings - just cautiously optimistic ones. Like a tingle in your brain that is screaming that Sonic Team hasn't learned a damn thing but you try to suppress it because you don't want to see them possibly fuck it up. Yet again.

#3204 User is offline Sir_mihael 

Posted Today, 06:21 PM

  • Posts: 212
  • Joined: 26-June 11
  • Gender:Male

View Postsaintminya, on Today, 01:20 PM, said:

I'm rather confused by what you mean Sir_mihael with the "pressure of wanting to do a proper hardcore anime-plot Sonic Adventure again". The edge factor didn't start til Adventure 2. I wouldn't exactly call SA hardcore, but it did take cues from anime in its presentation.

I totally agree with the sentiment of the Classic gameplay being the best recieved, but I also have this quirky belief that the CaC gameplay will end up being well-enough recieved once everyone gets completely past the face value.

Sorry, I think 'pressure' was the wrong word. What I meant was that Iizuka has wanted to do a more serious Sonic story for a long while, but has probably had to restrain himself for the longest time due to fan reaction. I get the feeling now with Mania coming out, and Sonic's reputation a little better, his team can cut loose and go back to trying a serious story. However due to it being a like a rubber-band that's been held back for so long, the rebound is giving us a beyond serious, absolutely over-the-edge plot with an unironic Mephiles 2.0 type villain and.

I have no idea really, I'm just speculating one reason for this game being so unusually serious if it's indeed playing it completely straight.

#3205 User is offline ItalianForce 

Posted Today, 06:28 PM

  • Posts: 34
  • Joined: 16-June 17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:State College, PA

View PostRikohZX, on Today, 04:41 PM, said:

I think what bothers me about Forces is a mix of the lack of self-awareness and the heavy scarcity of info. Mania's one thing, a large factor involving that game is the mystery of its contents given that it's straight-up a classic game with a minimal story, but Forces trickle feeds snippets of gameplay and story as if trying to build up hype.


Ah yes, the Halo 5 calamity where the marketing is a better story than the actual story itself. I can totally see that happening.

#3206 User is online RikohZX 

Posted Today, 06:33 PM

  • Posts: 96
  • Joined: 18-March 17
  • Gender:Male

View PostItalianForce, on Today, 06:28 PM, said:

View PostRikohZX, on Today, 04:41 PM, said:

I think what bothers me about Forces is a mix of the lack of self-awareness and the heavy scarcity of info. Mania's one thing, a large factor involving that game is the mystery of its contents given that it's straight-up a classic game with a minimal story, but Forces trickle feeds snippets of gameplay and story as if trying to build up hype.


Ah yes, the Halo 5 calamity where the marketing is a better story than the actual story itself. I can totally see that happening.
Not quite sure if it's wholly comparable, seeing as Halo 5 had far more of a budget and the advertising and hype building planned towards storyline bits and dots that ultimately were either underdeveloped in the final product or flatout missing entirely. Pretty much everyone thinks H5 got a rewrite late in development but all the advertising campaign stuff wasn't updated or revised to compensate.


Sonic Forces is too oblivious and awkward to mislead and botch with all that, seeing as every bit of advertising has directly tied into new reveals and gameplay directly shown to us; even the CGI trailers. About the only possible misnomer is if the returning league of villains really are illusions by Infinite rather than the real deal, given Iizuka's broad and vague confirmation of Shadow being evil again.

#3207 User is offline saintminya 

Posted 49 minutes ago

  • Posts: 121
  • Joined: 05-February 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Carolina
  • Project:music production, mental archiving.
@Sir_mihael that makes sense. It is good for Iizuka to have a project he can truly let loose on, perhaps something of a swan-song for him. I may not care for too much seriousness, but the Sonic franchise since its inception has balanced rather serious themes with whimsy. The core concept really is the environment vs. rampant industrialization. Just because Iizuka/Sonic Team want a more serious plot this time, it doesn't mean it will lack some of the comic whimsy. It just won't be full blown as Colours and Lost World, as well as to some extent Generations, all took the more comical route.

To be perfectly honest, I hope Sonic Team get everything they wanted to out of this game, regardless of its reception.

#3208 User is offline Qtheman 

Posted 12 minutes ago

  • Memory Access Violation
  • Posts: 431
  • Joined: 11-November 09
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Vancouver, BC
  • Wiki edits:4

View PostDeef, on Today, 05:23 AM, said:

I found it amusing that people ever used the "It's too early to judge" line the moment we got our first good look at this game.
I find it hard to believe that some are still trying to use it now.


Speaking as someone who was definitely in the "too early to judge" crowd when Forces was formally revealed... Yeah. Original the Character was one thing, but Noivern the Hedgehog Infinite... Like others have said, if it weren't for Sega/Sonic Team's track record I'd think this were a deliberate parody, especially after hearing Infinite's theme.

I had entirely too much fun with games like Shadow and '06, so I'll probably enjoy Forces too, but... Yeah, definitely getting a lot of mixed signals here.

#3209 User is online TheKazeblade 

Posted 3 minutes ago

  • "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect"
  • Posts: 2575
  • Joined: 05-April 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Coast, US
I'm very curious at this point what kind of feedback is getting back to Sonic Team about Forces. So many people are just confused or indifferent they probably have no idea what to expect in terms of release reception.

  • 214 Pages +
  • ◄ First
  • 212
  • 213
  • 214
    Locked
    Locked Forum

14 User(s) are reading this topic
2 members, 12 guests, 0 anonymous users

  1. Pending Member: simtek34,
  2. Yandex,
  3. Member: iGamr