Sonic Generations - we still haven't played it

Well, what I've seen is that the guy who has posted here at first wasn't giving credit to SEGA, but after all, he became completely hypnotized.

After Sonic 4, there's no way I could fall for such a SEGA trick. Sonic 4 was the biggest fail ever. Colors showed promise, as Jen said, but I still can't trust SEGA as long as Iizuka's on the game. Man, how can sega delegate Sonic Team to a rotten-teethed man who doesn't even know that running on ceiling did exist SINCE SONIC 1?

So, I can say that: I don't have any faith on Sonic Anniversary.

Well, last post as Trial Member, if someone wants to wish me luck, feel free.

 

Considering we know next to nothing about this, I have no opinion other than the fact it will either be excellent - or a total flop. Why? They have proved this year they can make a good Sonic game - Colours, and also destroy our hopes and dreams with Sonic 4. For the 20th Anniversary game it has to be good but will probably also be ambitious, and the key is if they pull off what they want. If they promise the Earth and we get it, Sonic is back on form and we will probably see fewer games but of better quality in the future, which is what everyone would like. If it fails, so many people will lose faith in the games, and Sonic will be back to Sonic 2006 territory.

 

You might like this observation then (crossposted from SoA forums):

"What really gets to me about the level design by DIMPS/Sonic Team is the 'conquering the beast' methodology that they used in EVERY stage. It's smooth sailing right up until the end where all of a sudden the floor drops out from you (sometimes literally) in an attempt to make the stage seem like some cruel beast that must be defeated before ULTIMATE VICTORY can be attained, but what actually ends up happening is the player gets frustrated that they have to start the level all the way over from the beginning because there aren't 50 rings between the last checkpoint and the SUPER CHALLENGE OF DOOM. The idea of each level being a demon that must be conquered is a very japanese design style and tends to just make western players upset and question why they keep playing. Before someone accuses me of conjecture let me cite some actual ingame examples:

- In splash hill act 3 where there are bottomless pits below ziplines, and right after the zipline landings
- casino street act 2 where you have to platform over all of the cards right before the end over the pit of death
- casino street act 3 where you have to cannon-to-homing attack and then not have the bumpers push you into the pit of death
- mad gear zone act 1 where you have the pistons kill you if you aren't somehow moving at full tilt, but you can't get any speed there because the first piston is de-synced
- The final boss. Every time you get hit your rings fly further and further away, which is cheap as hell. Also, the boss gives no warning as to what it is going to do and if you're on a 4:3 screen like me, you can't even see him when he comes down. Again, pulling the rug out from under the player.

There was one occurence in mad gear zone act 2 that had this problem 'fixed' between the leak and final builds where there were bubbles in the middle of the last gear run over the bottomless pit(again, jeez it's like there's a theme going on here or something) that made it so even super sonic had to momentarily lose control. Without super sonic this would have been an absolute deathtrap and I'm glad it got fixed in the final. But just this one occurrence is not enough. I seriously think sonic needs to stop being handled by japanese developers, their entire culture's mindset just doesn't mesh with what makes a classic sonic game. Or at least tell them to call Yasuhara - he seems like the only person ever to have worked for sonic team who knows how to make a game for both cultures.

Speaking of the piston section at the end of MGZ act 1, I found myself using the game's poor collision to stand on a small, one pixel wide area where I shouldn't be able to do and just wait for the whole set of pistons to reset their cycle and then just homing attack like mad to get through the section. Now of course, the eastern mindset I mentioned earlier would have the developers fix this had they known it was possible because there seems to be this prevailing mindset of 'if the user can find a solution to the problem that we didn't anticipate, then something is horribly wrong and they need to be punished for it'. This is evident in shows like Ninja Warrior (Sasuke in japan) where if someone gets inventive and finds a new way to reach the goal in question, they immediately get disqualified and kicked out of the tournament. Also, every time someone actually manages to BEAT Ninja Warrior, the entire course gets redesigned to be even harder. We saw this mindset during the development of Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut, where the majority of the development cycle was spent fixing 'character x in level y' bugs that everyone just wound up using an action replay or more collision glitches to circumvent later, instead of adding content and making it an actual director's cut. I'm sure you can see why this mindset would infuriate people who try to think critically and be inventive with a challenge to reach the goal instead of being shoved into the narrowest set of parameters possible and repeat, repeat, repeat until victory is achieved.

Ruby are you taking notes? This is something DIMPS needs to hear."

I'm hoping that THIS is something they fix in the anniversary game, as it was even relevant in colors to a lesser degree. If nobody notices this problem, I don't think SEGA will be too successful in their efforts to re-vitalize the franchise.

 

This is one of the reasons I find modern gaming disillusioning. Back in the old the days you were given a set of moves, a level and a goal, you could then do it your way. To often today it's to developers way or death.

 

Personally I refuse to step on either side of the hype/anti-hype tracks. Mainly because both sides seem to be crammed full of children incessantly whining about shit that doesn't really matter that much... but I digress.
All I can say is, if it comes out good (like Colours or better)? Great! If it comes out decent (like 4/Unleashed)? Oh, okay. And if it becomes a terrible clusterfuck (like '06)? Well, I'll be avoiding Retro for a few months to stay away from the shitstorm.

Wait, who am I kidding? The shitstorm happens anyway.

 

I don't recall a Colors shitstorm.

Anyways, I'm hoping this game turns out good. It's really hard to tell with no solid material. But if they remake Marble Garden Zone, Launch Base Zone, Hydrocity Zone, and Stardust Speedway, I'll be a happy man.

 

What was that about music? I'd take the Sonic Unleashed Sound Team over Crush 40 any day.

 

I can't believe nobody said this... THAT CLASSIC SONIC HAS GREEN IRISES RAEEEEEEG :specialed:

In all seriousness, I don't want them to do a 20th anniversary project, for the 15th anniversary we got Sonic 06 which obviously needed an extra year of development, and Sonic Genesis. I simply don't want SEGA to rush the hell out of Sonic Team or Sonic Team rushing themselves just to get a game out for the celebrations.

Also, wasn't the level compilation rumor debunked already?

 

The anniversary game will probably follow up on what Colors did. It would be really stupid not to, it's their most successful game in ages.

The inclusion of Crush 40 in this project makes me think it could possibly be Sonic Adventure 3.

 

Every single time I ask you why this is a "Japanese design style". This time is no different. Hopefully I'll get an answer this time.

 

Sonic Anniversary is Sonic Adventure 3; it is about Eggman trapping Sonic in his computer, and all the levels are pimped out simulated revamps of zones from Sonic 1 to Adventure 2, but so pimped out you have to be a nerdy fan to notice. To let you know how pimped out the stages are; Green Hill is the hardest, and final zone. :v:

+ - if only  

 

IF the best levels idea is true, I would hope the majority of levels are from Sonic CD and Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and not 50% Sonic 1, which is what I'm expecting. SEGA seems to assume when everyone means old Sonic games they're referring strictly to Sonic 1 and (sometimes) Sonic 2, considering this is pretty much what Sonic 4 felt like it tried to emulate. Also, they'd better pay attention to Marble Zone and Starlight Zone, they always assume Green Hill and Labyrinth are peoples favorite Zones from those games.

 

Probably because it is something shown in alot of anime and japanese tv shows? I even cited an example. This cliche even shows up more in Japanese video games (read: Zero wing, or any old nintendo famicom game). It's just like the whole 'power of teamwork' cliche that is a part of their culture as well. Kinda like how in a japanese office environment company parties and other events are all mandatory while here in the states they aren't. If you really want to question this, just go ahead and immerse yourself in some japanese media. It should become obvious quite quickly. Or read some articles on japanese culture. A very common observation is that the japanese do things 'for the challenge' and westerners do things 'to reach the goal'. Why else would you have entire generations of children jumping in front of bullet trains because they failed highschool? Because they're pressured into doing the hardest possible things and conquering the challenge, and failure is never an option.

 

For my money, I'm pretty convinced that a "Sonic Anniveristy" game could actually be a thing, as retro gaming has gotten somewhat hip in the last few years. There's also a huge group of people that have the mindset that the ONLY good Sonic games are the 3 Genesis / Mega Drive games (or they just believe what their internet friends are saying because they're too lazy to form their own opinion), and if a game took tons of levels from those game this group would surely be satisfied.

But I don't understand, isn't Sonic 4 supposed to be the return to old school? Episode One is, if anything, a tribute to old levels, and if nostalgia is the only thing SEGA's going on for the big Sonic games, I don't know if we'll get any new content like with Unleashed / Colours. And that's a bad thing.. right?

 

Depends. If it's good retro that manages to stay fresh and current while making us feel like we're playing the old games (like Contra Rebirth or DKCR), them I'm all for it. If it's stale and rehashed without doing much new or innovative, kinda like Sonic 4, then I wouldn't be very satisfied. In any case, the simultaneous development of Sonic Colors has demonstrated to me that they're more than capable of delivering new content while cashing in on nostalgia reminding us why we became fans in the first place.

 

I'm really hoping they're not just trying to cash in on the retro fad and instead make a new game that adds on to the Colors style, Colors was a great game, but I don't need to tell you guys this. I'm hoping for the next game they bring back some concepts that may not have worked in the past but they make them work, like the more mature story lines and more characters.

We can look at Sonic Colors as an almost-reboot. They're subtly rebooting the franchise by starting out with a basic premise, a simple storyline, just a few characters, and great gameplay. They concentrated their efforts on the gameplay this time around, and it paid off, now they can work on other aspects of it like the story and throwing in more characters, more characters isn't a bad thing, it's when they pull a Sonic Heroes and throw in 12 characters AT ONCE that it becomes a crime against the world. Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles with similar gameplay but different moves that make for a different gameplay experience similar to Sonic 3 and Knuckles. I'd also like to see some old school obscure characters appear like Mighty, Ray, and Nack/Fang.

Preaching to the choir here though, I'm pretty sure you guys have already heard this over and over.

 

Nah, that's okay. I'd much prefer they refine the current approach first and see where it takes them. I have no problem waiting for your points to appear slowly in an unforced manner - y'know, opposite of how Shadow/2006 were handled.

Or they could refine the current gameplay aspect further to the point that it works properly instead of being "so close, so close, so cl-- Gah, I fell from the extra jump momentum!" that is present in Colors. Sure, it's pretty good, but it most definitely still needs some work. I'd much rather they refine it to flow better than pull another "eh, close enough" for additional clutter.

 

Storylines, huh. I got one that's not too serious and not too silly.

Eggman captures Sonic (and pals?), and knocks them out, and puts on these electronic head-bands that are hooked up to a computer which makes them relive select past memories. Eggman is using this to study their thought processes so he can build a weapon perfectly suited to stopping THAT HEDGEHOG. (and pals?)

Kinda silly, sure. Certainly not a mass-murder of adorable aliens, but it could work.

This implies there'll be a story to begin with, and not just us being thrown into the game or a level select.

 

Basically this.

Crush 40's involvement doesn't psyche me up, either. Crush 40 did good Sonic music, y'know, in 2001. From Sonic Heroes onward, their music has been less than inspiring. Granted, the vocal work Sega has hired in their place (Lee Brotherton Bentley Jones, Zebrahead, Bowling for Soup, Cash Cash) hasn't exactly set the world on fire either, but I'd rather take another one-hit-wonder than go back to Crush 40 again.

I also take Crush 40's involvement as a worrying signifier of the tone this game will take, whatever it is. If they're digging these guys back up to do another song, what other old, decrepit concepts are they going to try and refresh for the 11th time? Calling back to the Dreamcast Sonics isn't something Sega should be doing anymore.