What makes a good hack?

Hey, you copied my EHZ2 layout.

*runs*

 

I think I have the same problem as you, SOTI, maybe, you just don't like hacking, probably, you'd preffer making new games..
or probably what I also have, the damn habit to NEVER EVER finish anything, I just CAN'T finish anything.. it's.. awful..

 

I always thought the choice of characters can affect the game-play/ playability of the hack. For instance, choosing a current, reoccuring character such as Sonic; he can spindash, peelout, wall kick etc, but having these abilities in *every* hack can make the game-play boring and stale, which could make it seem like you're playing the same hack everytime.

Hmm.. a character such as Amy, who seldom used in hacks; she can't spindash(she charges her running in place), she has a hammer which she can use in several different ways etc.

Just a simple thing such as a simple character change can make a huge difference to a hack.

 

Not shoehorning every single Sonic character, canon and non-canon into the ROM.

 

Before I start SOTI, I would ask you a question : Do you really think hacking is what you want to do ?

You know what is the problem ? You want to impress people. You want your hack to be the best hack ever seen. Rather than thinking that, do what you do in your hack.
Yes, Sonic 2 Epsilon was a crap at the beginning, but everyone start hacking with a crappy hack. Everybody start like that.

So to reply to your question What makes a good hack?, I would say, what you want, if it's done correctly. Personally, I enjoy a hack if layouts are done correctly. Level art, too. but that's all.

 

General Hacks:
Layouts art palettes and music. ASM is not so important, that is just a "bonus" to change the gameplay of the hack.
If you have enough skills to put these in your hack (including asm) read to these tips:

1. Work on one thing at a time. Ex: don't work on ASM while you are still working on layouts.
2. The best order to work on a hack is to work from the hardest thing to the easiest. Ex: My order is: Art, Layout, Asm, Music, Palettes.
3. When you are making layouts/art/palettes work on 1 act at a time.
4. Background and asm are the same because the deformation routines are inside the asm file.

I think these tips are enough.

ASM Hacks:
Now I'll explain a little about ASM hacks. These kind of hacks are being worked on in a complete different way:
1. The order is different: Layout, art, music, palettes, asm. L.A.M.P.A
2. The authors will work on more things at a time. S1EE had ghz's map which is all together.
3.Most hack's authors don't have a problem with the deformation codes.

^^^These are the differences between asm hacks and general hacks.

Important note: If you are not good in hex, you are not ready to work on asm yet.

P.S these are my thoughts about what makes a good hack.

 

Very well done, this tips are very useful to the novice hacker. If you are a beginner you have to pay attention this.

P.S.: Yay! Last trialist post!

 

Throw in some new characters, but give them unique moves. That's basically what some of the above posts are saying, but it's kinda true. I would imagine it is kinda hard to be original with so many hacks out there, but art never seems to go wrong. You said you can't really do art, and I'm assuming you want to do the programming side of it, so just throw in new moves, moniters, badniks and unrecognisable bosses.

You may be partly right there, he shouldn't wait until his hack is spot on perfect in every way, but it probably would be helpful to use some renowned hacks as a benchmark to keep you going right through it, and to make it good enough to be loved.

Anyway, just try and come up with a good, original idea, not some overused stuff.
Me, I'm just stupid as hell to learn this stuff without a freaking tutor.

 

Maybe I'm new to this board, but I worked also on several non-sonic projects before.
Well my advice is for creating games at all, maybe even create art in a special way..

Very important is to create not for yourself, but for the people who'll play this.

Change your point of view. Don't try to import tons of features disturbing the game feeling. Choose careful. Make a concept before you even touch the palette.

Well I think saying that if you include some new character the game is going to be better, is pretty naive.
Look for the first SonicPP Zone, only Sonic, only the classical game with nice and fresh art. This is going to be a good one, since it's for the players^^

Greetz

 

I wont mind if a hack lacks level art, ASM or new concepts as long as the game is really enjoyable to play. I find hacks such as Sonic 1 Harder Levels Version and Sonic - Westside Island really fun hacks to play, not because they are full of changes or unique concepts, they are hacks which managed to use existing ideas in a way that makes the game fun.

I don't know why you are discouraged to hack because of a hack you made which was bad, it doesn't mean your next hacks will be the same.

My Sonic Gets Poisoned! hack was bad as well. Even though I was initally pissed off at my responses, I took what they said to improve my hack, and its current state has tons of levels, custom and ported music, ASM and some rather unique ideas.

Anyway the stuff I have learnt in the last few months is:

1. Don't overuse bottomless pits, they may the game rather unfair.
2. Clear a level in SonED2 before you begin another level.
3. Many routes in a level = GOOD
4. Bad palettes will make most people just turn off the game at first sight.
5. My priorities in a hack from most important to least important is: Layouts > ASM > Music > Artwork > Palettes. People may find a different opinion on this.
6. Ripping off = BAD
7. People will disagree with this, but I couldn't care less if an idea is overused. As long is it is used correctly and positively, I don't care.

 

You're asking the wrong question. Approach hacking like you would theoretically making a video game from scratch. What do you think makes a good video game? Answer that question personally and apply it to your hack.

After all, the only difference between hacking an existing game and doing one from scratch is that in the former you're working off a template. Heck, if you consider that most independent games nowadays make use of existing libraries to take care of some of the more low-level computing tasks, the difference becomes even less.

 

A lot of advice on here makes a lot of sense.

I'm making my first hack despite being interested for some time. I know the palettes will be unpopular [especially in my GHZ] and there's more then likely going to be several other elements that will get panned by the majority of the people, but I'm using the game as a learning experience of what I can and cannot do within my own skill level. Once I've got that knowledge, I'll make a serious hack, but I digress.

My points are,

1) you should at least hack for yourself until you get a grasp of what your strengths and weaknesses are.

and 2) If you're not enjoying yourself, it's going to show in the hack. Relax and try to make it a fun experience, and if it's still not working, then the process probably isn't for you after all.

 

I can't speak for everyone else, but to me a good hack is one that is self-evident; in other words, you don't need to be told it's a good hack—it just is. For the sake of being helpful, here's a few pointers...

A good hack is like a good game—it exuberates specific qualities that are not present simply in a ROM hack, but in any well-designed game. Establish your motif, theme—whatever unique quality you want your hack to have—and build around it. Mr. Needlemouse is built around an early, wacky character design for Sonic; Sonic 2 Delta is built around recreating early levels and concepts from the original Sonic 2 game plan; The S Factor centers around Sonia and Silver, and their trek through specific unique locations as dictated by the story; and Sonic 1 Pixel Perfect and Sonic 2 Advanced Edit are centered around creating brand new, unique levels heavily based off design princples from the original Sonic games. Pick the theme you want and go through with it. Make it unique! That's how a hack will stand out.

The next thing you want to tackle is the degree of changes that your hack encompasses. If you're just changing a palette in a level, that can be a nice aesthetic change, but it can make the player bored or wanting more out of the game. Remember that the purpose of a hack—in most cases, anyway—is to use the original game as a base to create your own game. Leaving bits and bobs of the original game's design can make the player feel like they're missing something if other changes you've made are lacking. Things to do include editing music, editing art and/or palettes... etc. The most important change of all, though?

Level layouts. Brand new, totally unique level layouts. Everybody who has played a hack before is likely to have played the original games of origin—they know what it's all about. When you have brand new music, palettes, and even art, this can offset the inherent need for new layouts, and the hack can still be enjoyable (see: soniNeko), but it is absolutely imperitive that any hack that encompasses a wide array of changes at least try to design new levels. You can do absolutely nothing to a hack but change level layouts—leaving the original art totally intact—and you can still create one of the best hacks imaginable from level design alone. It's that important.

Of course, you can't just edit the levels in any way and be done with it. There needs to be flow; purpose. A coherent beginning, end, and a means—usually more than one—to get to that goal. One image that I always felt captured a good representation of the flow of Sonic levels was this:



Notice how varied the paths are, and how each has a specific degree of flow depending on the level motif. In fact take a look at this entire topic. It's absolutely full of great philosophical principles about Sonic level design. Take the advice within that topic, study it, and work bit by bit at your own levels. Remember that there's no fun in going in a straight line all the time or starting and stopping; the player has to feel like they're making a difference in helping Sonic traverse through the environment which has been created for him, while at the same time pumping up the player's adrenaline so they feel involved in the game. That's the real key.

How you decide to go about your focus and your design is totally up to you. Ultimately, hacking should be something you do for enjoyment, not to please others. Good luck. :v:

 

What a SORR pic is doing here?

Also, I'm surprised this image says that Sonic Advance 2 is linear, on the contrary it has a lot of many paths in each acts IMO...

 

You must be a hit at parties!

:P

 

I disagree. New music isn't enough to make a good hack. People want new layouts, with new art too if possible.

See, if the layouts are always the same, people would already know how they're going to end. Sonic 1 is Sonic 1, period. I can put the most awesome music in there, but that would just be the same as turning the music off and load some mp3s in Winamp while you play.
A hack with brand new layouts instead is unpredictable, because you won't know how the levels are going to develop. You might even keep the original music in there.

We discussed about this yesterday on AIM, I might just share my thoughts with everyone else. Music is optional, layouts are mandatory. For this reason I confirm that I'm retiring from hacking, since all I can do is music, and as a man alone I'm not able to create an outstanding hack. The bar is raising a lot with all the cool hacks currently in the works, Megamix and S Factor to begin with. The future is of hacking teams where everyone can contribute with his own skills, but a man alone (except for Cinossu and Rika Chou because they're awesome like that) can't think to make a good hack all by himself. Since I'm not good enough to be invited in any team, and I fail at leading teams, there's just no room for me in today's hacking scene.
I remember when I tried to turn soniNeko in a team hack. It was an epic failure which led me to its premature cancelation and release of that stupid 1.1.1 version. I still wonder how people like you and Aquaslash manage to start and mantain such large teams, that's an impressive skill I'll never have.
Also, all the cool people are already working in the two aforementioned teams, so there's not really much choice available right now. I actually thought to try to start a team hack again, but half of the tech members are in team Megamix and the other half mass-joined team S Factor for whatever reason. Hayate doing awesome things like the bonus stage and the selection screen, Malevolence doing bosses, and I don't even want to know what else is being kept under wraps.

So, dear SOTI, the sad reality is this. If you want to make a good hack you have to be cool enough to be invited in a successfull team, or good enough to lead your one. Good luck

 

Ignore this pessimistic rubbish. nineko is just on a bad emo trip, and his advice will be nothing short of detrimental to your cause. Trust me—the same philosophy I have presented to you now is the philosophy used to help create Sonic Megamix, which is widely considered one of the most successful Sonic ROM hacks of all time. If you want to reach that sort of level as a personal goal, then trust me—my post will help you more than you think.