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Sonic Generations - we still haven't played it YOU BITCHED ABOUT BLACK EYES, YOU GOT THEM

#31 User is offline DigitalDuck 

Posted 19 December 2010 - 03:08 PM

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QUOTE (Dude @ Dec 19 2010, 04:09 PM)
The idea of each level being a demon that must be conquered is a very japanese design style and tends to just make western players upset and question why they keep playing.


Every single time I ask you why this is a "Japanese design style". This time is no different. Hopefully I'll get an answer this time.

#32 User is offline Sparks 

Posted 19 December 2010 - 03:08 PM

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QUOTE (OSM @ Dec 19 2010, 12:21 PM)
The anniversary game will probably follow up on what Colors did. It would be really stupid not to, it's their most successful game in ages.

The inclusion of Crush 40 in this project makes me think it could possibly be Sonic Adventure 3.
Sonic Anniversary is Sonic Adventure 3; it is about Eggman trapping Sonic in his computer, and all the levels are pimped out simulated revamps of zones from Sonic 1 to Adventure 2, but so pimped out you have to be a nerdy fan to notice. To let you know how pimped out the stages are; Green Hill is the hardest, and final zone. v.png

if only
This post has been edited by Sparks: 19 December 2010 - 03:09 PM

#33 User is offline True Dude 

Posted 19 December 2010 - 03:59 PM

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IF the best levels idea is true, I would hope the majority of levels are from Sonic CD and Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and not 50% Sonic 1, which is what I'm expecting. SEGA seems to assume when everyone means old Sonic games they're referring strictly to Sonic 1 and (sometimes) Sonic 2, considering this is pretty much what Sonic 4 felt like it tried to emulate. Also, they'd better pay attention to Marble Zone and Starlight Zone, they always assume Green Hill and Labyrinth are peoples favorite Zones from those games.

#34 User is offline Dude 

Posted 19 December 2010 - 06:44 PM

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QUOTE (DigitalDuck @ Dec 19 2010, 03:08 PM)
QUOTE (Dude @ Dec 19 2010, 04:09 PM)
The idea of each level being a demon that must be conquered is a very japanese design style and tends to just make western players upset and question why they keep playing.


Every single time I ask you why this is a "Japanese design style". This time is no different. Hopefully I'll get an answer this time.

Probably because it is something shown in alot of anime and japanese tv shows? I even cited an example. This cliche even shows up more in Japanese video games (read: Zero wing, or any old nintendo famicom game). It's just like the whole 'power of teamwork' cliche that is a part of their culture as well. Kinda like how in a japanese office environment company parties and other events are all mandatory while here in the states they aren't. If you really want to question this, just go ahead and immerse yourself in some japanese media. It should become obvious quite quickly. Or read some articles on japanese culture. A very common observation is that the japanese do things 'for the challenge' and westerners do things 'to reach the goal'. Why else would you have entire generations of children jumping in front of bullet trains because they failed highschool? Because they're pressured into doing the hardest possible things and conquering the challenge, and failure is never an option.
This post has been edited by Dude: 19 December 2010 - 06:48 PM

#35 User is offline Ben Laserlove 

Posted 19 December 2010 - 07:30 PM

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For my money, I'm pretty convinced that a "Sonic Anniveristy" game could actually be a thing, as retro gaming has gotten somewhat hip in the last few years. There's also a huge group of people that have the mindset that the ONLY good Sonic games are the 3 Genesis / Mega Drive games (or they just believe what their internet friends are saying because they're too lazy to form their own opinion), and if a game took tons of levels from those game this group would surely be satisfied.

But I don't understand, isn't Sonic 4 supposed to be the return to old school? Episode One is, if anything, a tribute to old levels, and if nostalgia is the only thing SEGA's going on for the big Sonic games, I don't know if we'll get any new content like with Unleashed / Colours. And that's a bad thing.. right?

#36 User is offline MegaDash 

Posted 19 December 2010 - 11:42 PM

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Depends. If it's good retro that manages to stay fresh and current while making us feel like we're playing the old games (like Contra Rebirth or DKCR), them I'm all for it. If it's stale and rehashed without doing much new or innovative, kinda like Sonic 4, then I wouldn't be very satisfied. In any case, the simultaneous development of Sonic Colors has demonstrated to me that they're more than capable of delivering new content while cashing in on nostalgia reminding us why we became fans in the first place.

#37 User is offline Kail 

Posted 22 December 2010 - 09:51 AM

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I'm really hoping they're not just trying to cash in on the retro fad and instead make a new game that adds on to the Colors style, Colors was a great game, but I don't need to tell you guys this. I'm hoping for the next game they bring back some concepts that may not have worked in the past but they make them work, like the more mature story lines and more characters.

We can look at Sonic Colors as an almost-reboot. They're subtly rebooting the franchise by starting out with a basic premise, a simple storyline, just a few characters, and great gameplay. They concentrated their efforts on the gameplay this time around, and it paid off, now they can work on other aspects of it like the story and throwing in more characters, more characters isn't a bad thing, it's when they pull a Sonic Heroes and throw in 12 characters AT ONCE that it becomes a crime against the world. Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles with similar gameplay but different moves that make for a different gameplay experience similar to Sonic 3 and Knuckles. I'd also like to see some old school obscure characters appear like Mighty, Ray, and Nack/Fang.

Preaching to the choir here though, I'm pretty sure you guys have already heard this over and over.

#38 User is offline Ch1pper 

Posted 22 December 2010 - 08:18 PM

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QUOTE (Kail @ Dec 22 2010, 09:51 AM)
I'm hoping for the next game they bring back some concepts that may not have worked in the past but they make them work, like the more mature story lines and more characters.


Nah, that's okay. I'd much prefer they refine the current approach first and see where it takes them. I have no problem waiting for your points to appear slowly in an unforced manner - y'know, opposite of how Shadow/2006 were handled.

QUOTE (Kail @ Dec 22 2010, 09:51 AM)
They concentrated their efforts on the gameplay this time around, and it paid off, now they can work on other aspects of it like the story and throwing in more characters, [...] Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles with similar gameplay but different moves that make for a different gameplay experience similar to Sonic 3 and Knuckles.


Or they could refine the current gameplay aspect further to the point that it works properly instead of being "so close, so close, so cl-- Gah, I fell from the extra jump momentum!" that is present in Colors. Sure, it's pretty good, but it most definitely still needs some work. I'd much rather they refine it to flow better than pull another "eh, close enough" for additional clutter.

#39 User is offline Namo 

Posted 22 December 2010 - 08:26 PM

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Storylines, huh. I got one that's not too serious and not too silly.

Eggman captures Sonic (and pals?), and knocks them out, and puts on these electronic head-bands that are hooked up to a computer which makes them relive select past memories. Eggman is using this to study their thought processes so he can build a weapon perfectly suited to stopping THAT HEDGEHOG. (and pals?)

Kinda silly, sure. Certainly not a mass-murder of adorable aliens, but it could work.

This implies there'll be a story to begin with, and not just us being thrown into the game or a level select.
This post has been edited by Namo: 22 December 2010 - 08:27 PM

#40 User is offline BlazeHedgehog 

Posted 22 December 2010 - 10:04 PM

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QUOTE (ICEknight @ Dec 18 2010, 09:06 PM)
They completely failed to meet my expectations with Sonic 4, so I already don't have any hopes for this.


Basically this.

Crush 40's involvement doesn't psyche me up, either. Crush 40 did good Sonic music, y'know, in 2001. From Sonic Heroes onward, their music has been less than inspiring. Granted, the vocal work Sega has hired in their place (Lee Brotherton Bentley Jones, Zebrahead, Bowling for Soup, Cash Cash) hasn't exactly set the world on fire either, but I'd rather take another one-hit-wonder than go back to Crush 40 again.

I also take Crush 40's involvement as a worrying signifier of the tone this game will take, whatever it is. If they're digging these guys back up to do another song, what other old, decrepit concepts are they going to try and refresh for the 11th time? Calling back to the Dreamcast Sonics isn't something Sega should be doing anymore.

#41 User is offline Namo 

Posted 22 December 2010 - 10:38 PM

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QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Dec 22 2010, 10:04 PM)
Calling back to the Dreamcast Sonics isn't something Sega should be doing anymore.


Why is that? They're still highly popular.

#42 User is offline BlazeHedgehog 

Posted 23 December 2010 - 12:25 AM

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QUOTE (Namo @ Dec 22 2010, 10:38 PM)
QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Dec 22 2010, 10:04 PM)
Calling back to the Dreamcast Sonics isn't something Sega should be doing anymore.


Why is that? They're still highly popular.


How about the fact that the Dreamcast games birthed all of the bad habits that have dragged this franchise to the ground? How about the fact that all of those games are borderlining on a decade old at this point, making it high time to break free of the uninspired butt-rock?

I don't know if you're aware of this, but these days, the Dreamcast Sonics (and indeed, most 3D Sonics) are not well-regarded in the outside world and any nostalgia non-Sonic-fans had was likely washed away by the XBLA/PSN port of Sonic Adventure DX. Sonic Adventure 2, on the other hand, was where the backlash really began in earnest.

So no, I doubt they are still "highly popular" - that is, unless you're a registered member of forums.sonicretro.org v.png

#43 User is offline Namo 

Posted 23 December 2010 - 12:30 AM

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Haha, yes, that is true, Sonic Adventure is definitely what many, including myself, the turning point for the series. Even so, while we may not like it, a number of people still do.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want Adventure to make an appearance in this Anniversary thing either, but not because its unpopular - but because it's bad.

#44 User is offline MegaDash 

Posted 23 December 2010 - 02:35 PM

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QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Dec 23 2010, 12:25 AM)
How about the fact that the Dreamcast games birthed all of the bad habits that have dragged this franchise to the ground? How about the fact that all of those games are borderlining on a decade old at this point, making it high time to break free of the uninspired butt-rock?

I don't know if you're aware of this, but these days, the Dreamcast Sonics (and indeed, most 3D Sonics) are not well-regarded in the outside world and any nostalgia non-Sonic-fans had was likely washed away by the XBLA/PSN port of Sonic Adventure DX. Sonic Adventure 2, on the other hand, was where the backlash really began in earnest.

So no, I doubt they are still "highly popular" - that is, unless you're a registered member of forums.sonicretro.org v.png


Let's be fair. Sonic was already smelling like shit before Adventure arrived on the scene. It was about 5 years since Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and since then we all got to enjoy the fabulous adventures of Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic R, and Sonic Jam, which was really just a neat 3D frontend for playing games we already fucking owned. Also Knuckles Chaotix, unless you were a regular and savvy gamer who didn't bother to waste his time with a 32X.

Sonic Adventure was a tremendously bold, if flawed, reinvention of Sonic for the next generation. While it did start with genuinely flawed and stupid elements that should not have been continued since, it still nevertheless succeeded in being a genuinely fun game. Why? Because it got at least one thing right where it counted: making Sonic gameplay fun. Yeah, you had to play as fucking Big the Sega Bass Fishing plug and Amy the Barbie girl and Gamma the out-of-place third-person shooter, but SEGA at least got it where it counted: solid 3D gameplay with Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, backed up with some pretty hip music, nice graphics, and areas where you were given free reign to explore a nice 3D world without abominably bad controls and an only occasionally troublesome camera.

Unfortunately this package has not aged well, and neither has SA2 for that matter, but at least there still remain some crucial ingredients that can still be salvaged for a good 3D Sonic game in the future: good control, sweet music, and a fine balance of varying non-constant speed, platforming, and exploration/puzzles in both Adventure Fields and within individual stages. Nothing too fancy, but the design overall was nice, surreal, and most importantly, pretty fun. This is a very basic, balanced formula SEGA should have built upon and improved a long time ago, removing the fat of unnecessary shitty characters and garbage dialogue.

#45 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 23 December 2010 - 04:53 PM

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QUOTE (Kail @ Dec 22 2010, 10:51 AM)
I'm really hoping they're not just trying to cash in on the retro fad

I hope they do, because they've never even tried making new games with that approach.

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