[MrBadger]

Andrew75, on 17 February 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Sega shouldn't even have released the crap pile thats known as sonic 4, even if it was developed by dimps, Sega's responsible for the release.. where my Sega seal of quality !
I think it should have been held back another year so that the engine could have been ripped out and redone from scratch,
Its got the sonic 4 logo pasted all over the damed thing !Its Just not deserving,
Maybe Sonic 4 should have gone the way of Sonic Xtreme....
that way it may have actually been a good game....Only in our imaginations at least.

I think they released Sonic 4 too early as well. They thought a 2D game with all the old stuff would be enough and realised they were doing it wrong but couldn't be bothered to put in the effort to fix it. If they waited a while before revealing Sonic 4 they could have done their research and built a game truely worthy of that title. I don't really think they know the value of that 4 themselves really. Plus the kind of things I've seen episode 2 praised for are kind of silly. I figured games, and sequals at that, should have original stages, a good physics engine and enemies by defaut. Just the fact they're there seems to cause for celebration. I believe Episode 1 has lowered everyone's standards quite a bit.

[Dark Sonic]

Greg the Cat, on 17 February 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Dark Sonic, on 17 February 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

I don't see how if you legitimately like something you're an idiot

The phrase is "easily entertained". This term is applicable to many of the tube heads who won't give a damn about how bad a movie and its story is just as long as they see robots guys fighting and lots of explosions. This term is also applicable to the people who will buy the same game each time a new pack appears on their iPhone or the people who will ignore good, slaved over games for the usual shit. This is just my input in this scuffle. This could very well be applicable to some people here who will only be impressed with the fact that it's no longer a messy High School collage pasted together to try to look like a Sonic game but instead a boring, but at least cohesive attempt, to make Sonic Advance 4 look nicer.

Actually funny you bring up those examples of games because I actually agree with you on all of them. Raman origins was a brilliant game, angry birds space is retarded, and mw3 is overrated.

[Guess Who]

Azukara, on 17 February 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

And that's the part that gets me. It's not that we like stuff because it looks less like crap and I'm just accepting stuff due to "lower standards", but because we (or at least I) don't think it looks like crap at all. I personally don't see what is wrong with S4:E2 so far, in fact I can't even pinpoint on the dime what it is that's "wrong" with it. In fact, I think it's really nice looking, easy on the eyes, and even is a pretty interesting art style to go with for this game.

And if you think they could do better then cool beans, man! I just don't see the value in telling someone they're accepting garbage when they legitimately enjoy something, and there's nothing really wrong with it.

B-but my opinions are the only possible opinions of a free-thinking rational human being and everyone who disagrees with me is an inferior brainwashed sheep with a puny mind incapable of forming an independent thought!

[MrBadger]

Dark Sonic, on 17 February 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Greg the Cat, on 17 February 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Dark Sonic, on 17 February 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

I don't see how if you legitimately like something you're an idiot

The phrase is "easily entertained". This term is applicable to many of the tube heads who won't give a damn about how bad a movie and its story is just as long as they see robots guys fighting and lots of explosions. This term is also applicable to the people who will buy the same game each time a new pack appears on their iPhone or the people who will ignore good, slaved over games for the usual shit. This is just my input in this scuffle. This could very well be applicable to some people here who will only be impressed with the fact that it's no longer a messy High School collage pasted together to try to look like a Sonic game but instead a boring, but at least cohesive attempt, to make Sonic Advance 4 look nicer.

Actually funny you bring up those examples of games because I actually agree with you on all of them. Raman origins was a brilliant game, angry birds space is retarded, and mw3 is overrated.

Gotta agree there too, I loved Origins and was dissapointed how overlooked it was

[Greg the Cat]

Dark Sonic, on 17 February 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Actually funny you bring up those examples of games because I actually agree with you on all of them. Raman origins was a brilliant game, angry birds space is retarded, and mw3 is overrated.

Yeah, and the even funnier part is that Michel and his team's love and devotion showed through in their product, while Sega's still moping around in the shallow residues of average despite such "improvements" that really should have been the norm for years. Maybe they should take some time to really polish their games like Michel's teams usually legitimately care to do, even if it means they have to fix their mechanical level design just to accomodate real, working physics and proper gameplay. And really, there should be nothing wrong with what I'm saying here, but this fanbase has lowered its standards so damn low that anything even remotely average will overexcite anyone. Here's to the franchise's future Generations?

[Dark Sonic]

Huh, ya can't really argue that. I mean the quality is at least average now and while that should have been the norm, it wasn't. Generations, colors, and half of unleashed are the first 3d games that show some polish and completion. However I must note I enjoy modern gameplay as well as classic, although I believe some sorta adventure hybrid should exist, only with games not as crap in level design

[RGX]

What matters to me is if the game is "fun", "playable" and if "you enjoyed myself". I don't need a Sonic game that played "exactly" how it did 20 years ago. So what if the physics are off by a smidge, big fucking deal. I'm still gonna enjoy the damn game. Call it "low standards" if you must, but I rather enjoy something then bitch about the littlest shit that barely anyone notices.

Must your standards be so fucking high that you can't enjoy the other aspects of a game? Sonic 4 Ep 2. "seems" (<--- keyword there) to be shaping up to be a better game then the 1st episode. The graphics "are" better then the 1st Ep and comes included with with a new graphics engine, new online co-op and the better physics engine has been confirmed by SEGA themselves... Only thing I would to complain about is why we're only getting 4 zones again. Too damn short :/

Remember too, Sonic Team isn't developing this... This game in no way has the budget that games like Unleashed or Generations had either. Don't expect that type of quality in an low budget "arcade downloadable game".


Sonic 4 is nothing but little filler games fed to us while we wait for the mainstream games to be released by Sonic Team and hell, if the game is fun, thats what matters. Mistakes are being learned over time and Sonic games have been getting "better" in quality.

[steveswede]

Andrew75, on 17 February 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

steveswede, on 16 February 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

Andrew75, on 16 February 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Man sonic 4 episode 2 sure looks like a fan game to me,,
just doesn't look very professionally done,

In what way?

Because graphically I can do a better job and I'm a fan.

P.S.
To me the grass looks like a poor attempt at ripping off fan remix's but fail to top it.
Also I'm looking at the skills of the current people modeling this game it just looks like fresh collage grad work or something to me,
But hey I just have over 13 years 3D modeling experience, its easy for someone like me to spot another modelers skill level.
Not to mention the shitty home made looking textures.... Jesus cant believe you guys are defending this shit product.
Probably doesn't play any better than something a few fans have done in the past few years. (engine wise I'm speaking)

I ain't defending, just wanted to hear what you had to say.

[Keith Stack]

I'm not too sure that people "ignored" Rayman Origins, so much as that there was little-to-no advertising for this game from a franchise that hasn't had a proper new title in a significant number of years. Also the fact that it was released at the same time as tons of other high-profile games.

As for Sonic 4: Episode 2, I would say that the art direction in general seems much more cohesive, and a huge step-up from the first episode, and it's kind of hard to claim otherwise. I, however, don't have 13 years of 3D modeling experience, so I can't claim wether or not the visuals exceed that of "fresh collage grad work," at least not from a technical perspective.

Sonic games have been awfully shitty for a while now, but are becoming gradually less shitty, which excites people who have, at some point in their lives, been a fan of the Sonic franchise. Seeing such a massive improvement over the visuals of it's direct predecessor, it's not surprising to see people getting excited, even if it can be a bit over-the-top, and arguably undeserved.



But man, blatantly knocking-off that Fan Remix grass feels all sorts of sleazy. People should probably be making a bigger stink over that.

[Solaris Paradox]

Keith Stack, on 18 February 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

But man, blatantly knocking-off that Fan Remix grass feels all sorts of sleazy. People should probably be making a bigger stink over that.

Except that it's grass, and as there are really only a few ways for grass to actually look, it's not far from the realms of reason to assume it may have just turned out that way by coincidence. Also, that would make it two games in a row where people have raised a stink over grass. Which would be silly.

[Nova]

Keith Stack, on 18 February 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

But man, blatantly knocking-off that Fan Remix grass feels all sorts of sleazy. People should probably be making a bigger stink over that.

Okay, no - It's fucking grass. It looks relatively similar.

Sometimes I incorrectly label people's criticisms as 'complaints' towards titles like Generations/Episode II. This is not one of those times. I seriously hope the majority doesn't start sticking to this argument like flies on shit - given the quality of Generations, I think we can at least give this game a chance and not start nitpicking things like the fucking grass.

[SteelBrush]

Also anyone else see the problem about making a fuss because SEGA nicked the grass from a fan game?

[Shade Vortex]

Honestly, the game looks much better than Episode 1. The character models actually seem to be the same as Unleashed/Generations (though they were also that way in S4E1 but with shitty textures and cellshading), only now they have similar texture quality and lighting quality too. Now that the environments (excluding the background) are 3D models and the lighting is consistent, everything comes across as a more appealing product. I don't give a shit if fan games have "done better" over a long course of time without budgeting concerns, all I care about is that this game's visuals are like a hybrid between Sonic Fan Remix and Generations HD, except toned down graphically a bit.

But for a downloadable game, this looks pretty on par with Shadow Complex. And that's awesome. Fuck the whiners, nitpickers and critics. You can say I'm lowering my standards, but at least I can still find enjoyment in my life! You don't always get exactly what you want, as Episode 1 proved quite well. But to say that this isn't a massive improvement is similar to saying Sonic 06 is a well-polished, good game. It's factually incorrect.

Besides, we'll see at least a glimpse of the game on the 23rd. If there's enough footage, we'll hopefully be able to dissect whether or not the physics have been improved after all! I'm hoping they keep their promises this time. With the graphical improvement already proven, my hopes are raised.

And at least this game's zones aren't as bad of rehashes as Sonic 4: Episode 1's. Even the one most similar to an existing zone, the "Aquatic Ruins+Marble Garden" ripoff, is quite distinct. Since it's a Castle, I know people are also gonna draw similarities between it and Kingdom Valley, but it still has its own identity, unlike Splash Hill and Casino Street. And the badniks, save for Chop Chop, are all pretty unique. Even the Spikes and Sandworm "rehashes" are changed massively in terms of appearance, and if Episode 1 was handled similarly, I would have been more content with it.

Fact is, no matter what, there will always be people who aren't pleased. And around these parts, a large chunk of people are downright hard to please, especially when it comes to names. A name like "Sonic 4" carries with itself a weight which raised the game's expectations onto the highest pedestal, known to reach past even the Heavens! I bet if a Sonic Adventure 3 were announced (despite the horrible 06 basically being that), the Adventure fanbrats would treat it similarly, no matter how it turned out (and that they refuse to accept that 06 is SA3 is proof of that).

This post has been edited by Shade Vortex: 18 February 2012 - 07:06 AM

[Machenstein]

What I'm more interested in is the inevitable retail release. Since it's unlikely the episodes will lock-on, I wonder how Sega will handle "Sonic 4 Complete" if they put all the episodes on one disc. Will it be a complete overhaul the same way New Super Mario Bros. Wii was from the DS original? If so, that would be a big opportunity for Sega and Dimps to address the problems the original episodes had. Episode 2 will have problems that Episode 3 may fix, but if Episode 3 is the last episode, a retail release could add in Episode 3's fixes to the previous two episodes, and more.

[Kogen]

Yeah, who cares about those whiners! What odds if Tails' tails are shooting out of his line of sight. What matters is that we have lower-quality models compared to a game that came out a few months ago.

Trees growing out of shingles, tails growing out of pupils, vaginas for mouths - welcome to the world of Sonic.

Asthetic standards be damned.