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Mario & Sonic ~ The Adventure We're Still Waiting For

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Writer's Blah, Dec 27, 2011.

  1. Writer's Blah

    Writer's Blah

    Diagnosing flying trapezes and killer dillers sinc Member
    Ah, the old Sonic v. Mario debate. An incredibly hot topic of the nineties that has finally been put to rest (for the most part) by none other than a series of sports themed mini-game compilations, as well as Sonic's inclusion in Nintendo's flagship series, Super Smash Bros. All of these games have sold insanely well (although their quality can definitely be argued) and as we can all see, both SEGA and Nintendo seem perfectly content with their products.

    But to many of the longtime fans, the debate still has not been totally resolved. In truth, the one thing that the fans still TRULY long for is a huge, platforming adventure that lets the two heroes and their friends, possibly, visit each other's worlds, duke it out, and ultimately team up to bring down some greater evil. However, as has been proven before, this request, though seemingly simple, is a lot harder to bring to fruition than it seems. After all, both franchises have always been both known best for their platforming, right? True, but the problem comes in when you consider how radically different the two playstyles between a Mario and Sonic game are. Osamu Ohashi discussed this in great detail, but what he said can be summed up to this:

    And now we have a hedgehog and a plumber competing in friendly Olympic-themed competitions. Yup. :specialed:

    This issue seems to be a rather stumping one, and it can be really hard to discern what measures would actually have to be taken in order to create a quality Mario & Sonic adventure. Of course, the guys over here at Retro are all incredibly smart, and I'm quite certain we could come up with some solution. I myself have an idea that I consider to be quite good and I believe covers all the bases that would be required to be present and agreed upon by both Nintendo and SEGA, but I'll stay quiet unless asked for the time being. As of right now, I'd like to hear from you guys, and what your opinions/thoughts/solutions on the matter would be.
     
  2. Crasher

    Crasher

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    I remember seeing something about this somewhere on dA. Lemme see if I can find it again.

    Edit: Should make myself more clear:

    An idea for a Mario and Sonic Platforming game.
     
  3. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Oh man, someone find that post where Robotnik and Bowser set Sonic and Mario against each other by telling Sonic that Mario went around killing turtles and all that stuff.

    Anyway, for better or worse, this hypothetical game will never happen. (I haven't seen anything of the Olympics series to judge whether it should have ever happened, so I'll leave that to everyone else!)

    Really? All of them, as an amorphous mass?

    I have my doubts whether the majority have even ever thought about it.
     
  4. OSM

    OSM

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    3D Land levels designed like pinball tables with rolling physics.

    Done. The perfect Mario and Sonic game.
     
  5. Sparks

    Sparks

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    Unleashed style gameplay in Mario levels and slow platforming in Sonic levels?


    Wait nvm, SEGA just did something like that. :ssh:

    Speaking of Super Mario 3D Land, I sure hope SEGA takes inspiration from its gameplay.
     
  6. AuroraRedwinters

    AuroraRedwinters

    Sonic Sez: "Broz b4 Hoez!" Member
    I must be strange because I never have wanted a Mario and Sonic (platforming) game. :psyduck:
     
  7. Namo

    Namo

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    They're standard mini-game fare; nothing to write home about but nothing to hate on either.

    I can't see a "Standard" Mario and Sonic game working too well. How would it work, exactly? Play some levels as Mario, some as Sonic? You could just alternate between playing a Sonic game and a Mario game, unless you care about whatever story the game will have, or alternatively seeing Mario run through Sonic themed worlds, and Sonic run through Mario themed worlds. Neither worlds are particularly interesting out of context, though, especially Sonic's as of late.
     
  8. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    The Land of Waldos
    Sonic Utopia, Sonic Overture
    Mario cannot run loop de loops, and the game would suck if you took those out.
    The problem is pretty much an unsolvable paradox.
    Unless of course you did something similar to Sonic Generations, where there's a half of every stage designed specifically for the character's individual play styles.
     
  9. SomeSortOfRobot

    SomeSortOfRobot

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    I always thought it'd be cool if they got Intelligent Systems to do a Sonic/Mario action RPG
     
  10. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    Was literally just about to post this. Just have Mario & Sonic instead of Mario & Luigi. Done.
     
  11. Machenstein

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    They could just put platforms beside the loop-de-loops, enabling Mario to get over them.

    They could also bring back these things from Mario World.
     
  12. Secret Bonus

    Secret Bonus

    I'm walking in snake piiiits, oooooOOOOooooh Member
    I really think it'd be best to do it like Generations, 5-7 known Mario and Sonic levels. Hell, take the opportunity to use levels that almost got in Generations. I totally would be down for speeding through Pinna Park.
     
  13. Writer's Blah

    Writer's Blah

    Diagnosing flying trapezes and killer dillers sinc Member
    Well, since everybody seems at a loss as to how this game would work out, (“unsolvable paradox”, you say?) I shall propose my own idea.

    First, I would like to propose a somewhat new engine that we would be introducing to both characters. I'll start with our main stars.

    Sonic's gameplay will be a combination of the three major gameplay styles we have seen in the series so far: Genesis gameplay, Adventure gameplay, and Unleashed gameplay. In your typical 3D areas, physics will resemble SA2's physics, with moves from both Adventure and Generations (short-range jump dash/homing attack, SA2-style spin dash, rolling used by Tails and Knuckles in SA1, quick step, drifting, and a nerfed boost.) In 2D, a crapload of these abilities will lock, leaving you with Sonic 2's moveset and physics plus the Super Peel-Out. We got the shields from S3&K, SA2's light-speed dash, Generations wall jumping, and two options to fall downwards: a regular fall that can be used at any time as log as you're in midair, akin to the fall move from SA1, and Unleashed's stomp which can be upgraded to SA2's bounce attack, which actually would serve a purpose in platforming. The two “falls” can be used interchangeably, which could make for some interesting speedruns.

    Mario's gameplay would basically resemble Galaxy's moveset with Sunshine's physics. Why Sunshine? Because honestly, Sunshine had a better engine in terms of jumping. You were a lot freer to pull off crazy stunt combos that simply aren't possible in Galaxy's engine. Of course, FLUDD would not be present, so Galaxy's moveset would obviously take precedence. Maybe mix in the forward slide from Sunshine, and you would have a pretty good Mario.

    The matter of having which things being Mario-themed and which ones being Sonic-themed could be summed up around your character and your current area. If you're playing as a Sonic character, then you're going to have rings instead of coins, and they're going to function the same way they do in Sonic games, regardless of whether you're in a Mario level or not. Vice versa for Mario characters. Power-ups would be a bit testier in this aspect. The way I see it, certain power-ups will only be visible to the characters from which those items exist in.

    As for the matter of a Sonic-level not fitting Mario characters and vice versa, who said the same level layouts had to be used? Pull a Generations and make Mario levels that are Sonic-themed and vice versa.


    Mario can't run loop-de-loops? Just introduce a power-up that makes Mario run faster for a limited time, like the Rainbow Star from Galaxy, except without invincibility.

    And to answer Ohashi's question about having a “neutral” area for Mario and Sonic, I also have a solution which could even later justify the whole Olympic Games ordeal. Get this: Shangri-La. Why? I got my own back story for this and everything, but Shangri-La's in China, right? After Mario and Sonic save their own respective lands along with Shangri-La, the king/emperor/what-have-you invites them to participate in the Beijing Olympics as a sort of reward for saving said lands. See, it all works out!

    I actually have a whole game planned out in my head, complete with plots and everything. If anybody's be interested, I'd be more than happy to share some more.
     
  14. Scripten

    Scripten

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    Hm... first coming into this topic, I was pretty much of the mindset that a Sonic/Mario crossover game couldn't really work. However, after thinking about it, wouldn't the difference between Mario and Sonic gameplay be little different from those present between Sonic and any of his friends? Granted, the slower speed would stop him from being able to go through loops or up big slopes, but that's where the individual paths for each character would open up. In fact, to really exemplify the crossover status of the game, a number of elements from each series could be injected into each level. For example, from the Sonic side, we've got various gimmicks like vines and shields, which can be used by either character, as well as ones, like loops, or even zoom tubes, that only Sonic can use. From Mario, we've got all the different powerups, which could benefit either character in different ways, as well as pipes and breakable blocks, which only Mario would be able to pass through. With enough care, a level designer could create some of the most extravagant stages in either series and have them work for both characters.
     
  15. Writer's Blah

    Writer's Blah

    Diagnosing flying trapezes and killer dillers sinc Member


    Yoshi's Dash Pepper says hi.
     
  16. Scripten

    Scripten

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  17. Rosie

    Rosie

    aka Rosie Member
    The only way you could actually make such an idea work would be to do a sort of Sonic Heroes type system. Where you press a button and switch between the two, and use their distinctive abilities to progress. Possibly include a type of buddy system, where you have to use switches or do other things to allow the other character to progress. Mario could don rollerskates and hold onto Sonic's spines as he ran. It has the potential to be a surprisingly good game, but I can't see there being anyone who would have the inventiveness to make such a project work well. If it happened, it would suck, so I think I'm in the oh hell no camp.
     
  18. GT Koopa

    GT Koopa

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    So why can't it just be having Mario and Sonic have separate levels, with Sonic in Mario's world backdrop with level design that's "Modern Sonic" and Mario in Sonic's World backdrop with level design that is 64/Galaxy?
     
  19. Solid SOAP

    Solid SOAP

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    Honestly, just pull off the old character roulette they've been doing since Adventure and make it so you can choose whether to be Sonic or Mario. Alternatively, have a Sonic Heroes tag-team system where you choose between the two on the spot depending upon their strengths.
     
  20. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    Having a "speed up" powerup for Mario just to complete every stage is not only terribly cheap, but unethical game design. Also I would rather see Mario and Sonic cross over in each others' history of stages, not have the whole game take place somewhere in China.
    I'm liking the idea of this game if it were organized like Generations, with a separate act designed specifically for the character. On the other hand, you could do an S3&K thing and have the same stages with character specific routes. Also a big part of me prefers this game be all 2d instead of 3d or some vague combination. Then again, both Sonic and Mario's recent games have done the whole switching between 2d and 3d gameplay, so the idea would still work really well.