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MD to HDTV

#1 User is offline redhotsonic 

Posted 04 March 2015 - 04:24 PM

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I know this has been a topic before in other forums and I've done my research, only to be disappointed in some way. Anyway, I got myself a new TV a few months ago; Sony's 50W829B. Really pleased with it, but just like my old HDTV, when I plug my MegaDrive in via SCART, it's 480i. I know, SCARTS can only do interlaced. I once put my MegaDrive into my girlfriend's old CRT TV and it being progresive, it makes so much difference. I decided to do something about this interlace issue on my HDTV. So, doing some research, I've been told to plug it via HDMI. But how? Again, doing more research, using this.


I got it yesterday in the post. Today, I plugged the MD via SCART into the upscaler, and the upscaler via HDMI into the TV. Thinking that it will now be upscaled to progressive... no. My TV does 720p (240p goes into this) or it can do other resolutions and 1080p with this upscaler, yet no matter which I use, it's still interlaced (even though my TV says it's 720p/1080p).


Now, I am thinking of getting this SCART lead and then plug that into the upscaler. To be honest, I don't think this will solve my problems (it has more pins that my current SCART lead, so who knows), but somehow other people are getting their MD in progressive. Maybe it's my TV?


Anyone solved their issue on getting their MD into progressive with their HDTV? And if so, how?

Spoiler


#2 User is offline Shadow Hog 

Posted 05 March 2015 - 11:47 AM

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XRGB-Mini. In fact it's literally the only way I can use SCART, living in the US where we stubbornly insisted composite was good enough for us for the longest time.

Not the cheapest upscaling-to-HDMI option by any stretch of the imagination, but general consensus is it's the best.

#3 User is offline tokumaru 

Posted 06 March 2015 - 03:18 PM

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I too was very disappointed with the cheaper SCART-to-HDMI converter I bought a while back (LKV362A). The video remained interlaced and it actually looked worse than if I just connected the composite cable directly to the TV. The RGB somehow became incredibly blurry and the sound was completely mangled, it was way worse than the composite. Other consoles, like the SNES, performed better, but never better than the TV by itself, which was a huge letdown.

I can't possibly afford the XRGB-Mini, specially considering the recent exchange rates (the dollar is 15% or so more expensive than a few of months ago), and the abusive import taxes of 60% my country charges on any international purchase, plus the shipping, which is never cheap. Guess I'll just have to hold on to that old CRT for as long as I can.
This post has been edited by tokumaru: 06 March 2015 - 03:19 PM

#4 User is offline db-electronics 

Posted 07 March 2015 - 01:17 PM

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Online sellers don't really bother with describing the difference between a converter and an upscaler. A converter will do just that, convert your signal - and in my experience the output of a SCART to HDMI converter is worse than simply plugging CVBS directly to your HDTV.

For any kind of quality, you need to use a SCART to HDMI upscaler; the defacto standard for these is the XRGB-3. If you go for a cheap upscaler you'll most likely encounter serious lag which I find to be unacceptable. In fact, even just regular HDMI adds enough lag to render my Super Metroid wall jumping skills null (on Wii U). Micomsoft also offers the XRGB-mini (Framemeister). There's a very good wiki on the XRGB-mini on junkerhq. There's also RetroRGB.com which is a mountain of information with respect to getting the best possible video quality out of retro consoles.

It is quite the investment, and personally I haven't bought one since I play on a Trinitron through a SCART to YPbPr converter; but eventually my Trinitron will die :(/>

#5 User is offline redhotsonic 

Posted 10 March 2015 - 08:46 AM

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I may just plug the scart direct into the TV then and just put the PS2 scart into the converter (I play the MD more than I play the PS2). Or I could just go old school and go to the car boot on Sunday and find a CRT TV =P

xRGB is way too expensive; I rather just deal with the interlacing. I was just hoping the converter would do the job (some people said it did) but should have known it wouldn't. I needed one either way as my TV only has one scart and one component (Wii - component, PS2 - Scart) and I had 1 free HDMI port left so... converter it was.


Thanks for the advice guys, but if anyone has an alternate solution, still let me know!

#6 User is offline db-electronics 

Posted 10 March 2015 - 09:01 AM

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View Postredhotsonic, on 10 March 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

I needed one either way as my TV only has one scart and one component


Why not get a SCART selector switch?

#7 User is offline redhotsonic 

Posted 10 March 2015 - 09:11 AM

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At the time of doing this, thinking a converter will solve my progressive issue, I opted for that idea. Rather than going through the hassle of selling the converter again and buying a Scart selector, I might as well keep my current set up. If it ever comes to a point where I get a new device needing an HDMI port I will then bother with the selector :)

#8 User is offline doc eggfan 

Posted 11 March 2015 - 12:44 AM

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don't you just need an old school 'line doubler' to de-interlace? they're a bit cheaper than the xrgb option.

#9 User is offline redhotsonic 

Posted 12 March 2015 - 04:36 PM

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Well, unless I am looking in the wrong places, I can't find one that's reasonably priced in the UK. Only from other countries, meaning more shipping costs, and they're VGA, and my TV doesn't have VGA, meaning more converters, etc. Not worth my money just for the sake of getting a progressive picture. Anyway, I have decided to send the converter back (my fault, I thought the converter accepted 240p but only 480i minimum, hence why it remained interlace and never worked). Luckily Amazon will take anything back before 30 days.

Looking into the xrgb Framemeister that got suggested, I stumbled onto this site (I did briefly look at it before), but noticed the Sony W6 TV review; perfect for gaming. It's capable in GAME mode of 2 different ways of de-interlacing. Apparently, the W7-W9 series are perfect too. Seeming as I have the W8 series, I tested it out (I feel so stupid now; why didn't I try this before?!).

Playing my Megadrive now is practically progressive. There's two options. One with speed setting set off, which gives me smooth game play, less input lag and is de-interlace, except for when the scanline (or whatever it's called) goes up the screen, which is interlaced. This doesn't seem to be a problem and you don't actually notice it, unless something is flashing repeatedly like Eggman flashing when hit, or the shield, or being invulnerable after being hurt. It's quite noticeable then and it starts to irritate quite quickly.

The second option; speed setting on. This gets rid of the problem and there's no interlace whatsoever (line doubler pretty much), but every 5 seconds maybe, the screen will jolt, especially when the screen is moving horizontally. I have to pick between the two (or turn Game mode off and have the whole thing interlaced). There's obviously other picture settings that can ease the issue, but it won't solve either. I suppose it depends what game I am playing. Sonic, maybe the speed setting off and put up with interlaced Eggman. But then if I play Gunstar Heroes where every bloody thing repeatedly flashes, then maybe putting it on will be best. Seeming as these two options are free, I'll deal with it.


EDIT: This snip-it explains it better from the site:

Quote

The processing of 15khz sources (240p through RGB Scart or 480i through component) is unfortunately - just like expected - a little less stellar. The handling of RGB sources on the scart input is atrocious. Visibile chroma delay and fuzzy processing will just keep you from enjoying RGB signals. The component input is considerably cleaner compared to that. With 480i, 576i or 1080i the Sony usually passes on proper deinterlacing. Instead the processor just uses a single field (240 lines on 480i signals, 540 lines on 1080i signals) and interpolates the existing lines to the full panel resolution. This method is fast (as fast as processing progressive signals), but not exactly pretty, especially as it causes a light line tremble and with it a certain commotion to the whole image. Full deinterlacing can be applied using the "speed preference" option in the picture settings, but this considerably increases the input lag (by a little more than two frames). With full deinterlacing enabled the line tremble's gone, but a little chroma delay is added to the picture (with reds slightly shifted to the right). The deinterlacing itself in this mode is quite remarkable though. The level of details Sony's deinterlacing engine maintains in the backgrounds is impressive. The resulting image is still considerably softer than with a native 480p source though. By boosting the basic sharpness setting to about 65 (and keeping reality creation off) the results with 480i sources are still rather appealing. Results from interlaced HD sources (1080i) are very nice either, no matter if fast or full deinterlacing is used.

This post has been edited by redhotsonic: 12 March 2015 - 04:41 PM

#10 User is offline nesboy43 

Posted 13 March 2015 - 12:07 AM

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I highly recommend getting a Sony PVM or BVM CRT set. They accept RGB and look stunning. Seeing Sonic 3 on it blew my mind, and I've played the game hundreds of times on CRTs before.

The way I see it is why bother with all the hardware to tweak it to look better on an HDTV when there are plenty of CRTs available that play the game in its native res and looks beautiful?
This post has been edited by nesboy43: 13 March 2015 - 12:08 AM

#11 User is offline redhotsonic 

Posted 13 March 2015 - 08:33 AM

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View Postnesboy43, on 13 March 2015 - 12:07 AM, said:

The way I see it is why bother with all the hardware to tweak it to look better on an HDTV when there are plenty of CRTs available that play the game in its native res and looks beautiful?


Because a CRT doesn't look great hanging from a wall and can't accept my PS4 lol. I have actually considered getting a CRT and putting it and the MegaDrive in the spare room; just for old times sakes. I'm off to the Car Boot Sale on Sunday so might find a cheap one then. A Sony PVM sounds nice, but again, a bit on the expensive side (with no one delivering and living too far away for collecting).

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