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Sonic 3 Complete S&K Collection on MD, with fixes, Sonic 3 music and many options.

#1681 User is offline Dr. Mecha 

Posted 07 November 2016 - 11:50 PM

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I found something very interesting that you could fix in your hack, if it hasn't already:

It seems that in Sonic Jam they improve the intro bit of Sonic slamming the Sega Logo out of the way, making the animation seamless.
This post has been edited by Dr. Mecha: 07 November 2016 - 11:50 PM

#1682 User is offline Felik 

Posted 08 November 2016 - 12:02 AM

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I always thought that wonky title screen animation was due to Genesis struggling to quickly load and display huge sprite animation.

#1683 User is offline Neo 

Posted 08 November 2016 - 06:51 AM

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Yes, it's a bit slow and bumpy because it's decompressing these huge art files on the go since there's no room to load it all at once. It even brings the music down with it a bit.

The good news is that Tiddles recently switched the title to blazingly-fast-decompression Comper format and performance has gone way, way up.

#1684 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 08 November 2016 - 08:45 AM

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View PostBrainulator, on 01 July 2016 - 05:54 AM, said:

Tiddles already said that Competition Mode is very low priority, although they have enough differences in acceleration to be different.


I remember once accidentally making a glitched up version of glide and climb for Knuckles in Competition Mode when trying to insert Amy, though never quite figured out how it worked or how to fix it and lost it when I refined the coding. Maybe I could look into it again at some point and hand Tiddles the results for a simple copy and paste if successful.

I'm wondering, this is more a fantasy wish list now, but do any MIDIs or programable tracks exist of the 'full versions' of the S+K tracks? It could maybe add onto the customisable soundtrack by having remixes of them available. Sort of like this I guess, but without the melody errors (watch 1:25 onwards):



As said though, this is a rather extravagant suggestion so ignore otherwise. I just love those added riffs.
This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 08 November 2016 - 08:52 AM

#1685 User is offline TheInvisibleSun 

Posted 08 November 2016 - 06:58 PM

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View PostDigitalDuck, on 07 November 2016 - 08:22 PM, said:

View PostICEknight, on 07 November 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:

But nothing suggests that it was a bug... right?


Aside from the fact that it was fixed in S3K, and that it's the same thing as the ice balls in Ice Cap Zone (that were only half-fixed) and the spike bug in Sonic 1


If by "fixed", you mean "just doesn't happen to Super Knuckles", then couldn't it possibly mean that Knuckles is just individually unaffected by it? (Unless there is a hack/test somewhere of an S3K version of Sonic vs. Big Arms fight that confirms this). If true, (though I doubt it is) then it would be cool to see that kind of depth in the game design, as it would fit Knuckles as a character for his Super form to have that sort of buff.

#1686 User is offline Brainulator 

Posted 08 November 2016 - 09:06 PM

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E-122-Psi, that would be cool. I had to say something because after all, you brought me up after a couple of months of inactivity lest I make another useless or stupid statement.

View PostTheInvisibleSun, on 08 November 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

If by "fixed", you mean "just doesn't happen to Super Knuckles", then couldn't it possibly mean that Knuckles is just individually unaffected by it? (Unless there is a hack/test somewhere of an S3K version of Sonic vs. Big Arms fight that confirms this). If true, (though I doubt it is) then it would be cool to see that kind of depth in the game design, as it would fit Knuckles as a character for his Super form to have that sort of buff.
For what it's worth sorry Neo, it seems Tiddles simply edited the behavior to reflect how Sonic and Tails fought the boss and did not restore what I'll call the Super Slam. I'm honestly interested if it affects monitor-granted invincibility and how it affects the post-hit flash cycle.

#1687 User is offline DigitalDuck 

Posted 08 November 2016 - 09:47 PM

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View PostTheInvisibleSun, on 08 November 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

If by "fixed", you mean "just doesn't happen to Super Knuckles", then couldn't it possibly mean that Knuckles is just individually unaffected by it? (Unless there is a hack/test somewhere of an S3K version of Sonic vs. Big Arms fight that confirms this). If true, (though I doubt it is) then it would be cool to see that kind of depth in the game design, as it would fit Knuckles as a character for his Super form to have that sort of buff.


Well, if you make Super/Hyper Sonic or Super Tails fight Big Arms through various means in S3K (you can spawn it through debug glitching, and there's a patch code somewhere that re-enables it), they bounce out of it in the same way as Knuckles does.

#1688 User is offline Okamikurainya 

Posted 09 November 2016 - 04:16 AM

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Just finished playing through Sonic 3 Complete again, it truly is the definitive way to play what is pretty much my favourite game of all time. :)

I'm probably sure you've gotten this request/suggestion before, but I was wondering if it would be possible to impliment a flight deactivation control for Tails? Something like down+jump that would release him from the flight if he hasn't become exhausted already? It's something that's always bugged me, even if it released him into the walking animation to prevent abuse. Dropping down while in flight is just so slow. >_<

#1689 User is offline Knucklez 

Posted 18 November 2016 - 12:36 PM

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Is there a way to fix the lagging frames at the main menu when Sonic is rolling toward the screen? Is it a processing issue due to the MegaDrive? Cause I know it was perfectly smooth in S&K collection. I'm certain this has been discussed but I can't recall much about it.

#1690 User is offline kazblox 

Posted 18 November 2016 - 06:18 PM

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View PostNeo, on 08 November 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

The good news is that Tiddles recently switched the title to blazingly-fast-decompression Comper format and performance has gone way, way up.


#1691 User is offline TheLastWhiteFlame 

Posted 19 November 2016 - 03:54 AM

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View PostKnucklez, on 18 November 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

Is there a way to fix the lagging frames at the main menu when Sonic is rolling toward the screen? Is it a processing issue due to the MegaDrive? Cause I know it was perfectly smooth in S&K collection. I'm certain this has been discussed but I can't recall much about it.


Im not sure how SKC does it but another way of fixing it would be to load the art dynamically which would save time and free some VRAM space but Comper works just as good.

#1692 User is offline Ralakimus 

Posted 19 November 2016 - 10:49 AM

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Aren't the tiles already dynamically loaded, just that each set of tiles per frame is compressed?
This post has been edited by Ralakimus: 19 November 2016 - 10:49 AM

#1693 User is offline flamewing 

Posted 20 November 2016 - 06:58 AM

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Ralakimus: yes, that is how even the stock, unmodified game works. It had kosinski-compressed art for each frame, which was decompressed and uploaded to VRAM. S3C first changed to my faster Kos decompressor, then moved to Comper for more speed at the cost of bigger art files in ROM.

#1694 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 21 November 2016 - 04:04 PM

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Curious. Any plans for a Sonic Mania sprite mode once that game is released? (I know those sprites have more colors than this game could deal with but maybe with some modifications it could work).

#1695 User is offline Neo 

Posted 21 November 2016 - 05:14 PM

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The palette isn't even the problem. Annoying and some color reduction is definitely necessary, but not really a dealbreaker.

It's the sprites themselves that are troublesome, for three disparate reasons. One, there's probably a bunch of poses that S3 needs and Mania doesn't, so someone would have to draw some more colorful mice (no thanks). Two, and this is related to three as well, Sonic Mania has a lot of extra sets of animation, like the walk/run poses are now at least 3 or 4 different cycles, there's a version of the walk cycle used exclusively while falling and probably more stuff I haven't noticed. Worst case, these would just be simplified and omitted where not really necessary.

Reason three however is the devastating blow. Not only does Mania add a lot more cycles, but it adds a lot of distinct frames to each cycle, and we're already up to the 250-ish frame limit of the S3 animation system. We would have to do a signficant overhaul to the code and data structures to add all the extra smoothness, and even then you're still running up against missing S3 poses, a poor color palette, and hey now you just filled half the ROM with uncompressed character sprites. Might as well stick to the mantra of "if it didn't happen before 1994, it didn't happen". (except for mobile remakes ok)

That said, if you can expect anything, then definitely expect some nods to Mania, in perhaps more meaningful ways; I at least will certainly get more inspiration once I've played it.

Thanks for showing interest in the sprite options though, it's an occasionally reviled feature that we (I) have to maintain, so it's good to know some people care about them. I've been toying with some old sprite ideas which have now become tangentially related to Sonic Mania, so feel free to be curious and excited about whatever that means.
This post has been edited by Neo: 21 November 2016 - 05:16 PM

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