[Azu]

You could make a spline for the grind. If Xaklse adds it, he could have the spline play the animation you for the grinding. Maybe add a minimum grind speed. I don't know about rail switching though.

[Heat-Nova]

Azu, on 28 March 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

You could make a spline for the grind. If Xaklse adds it, he could have the spline play the animation you for the grinding. Maybe add a minimum grind speed. I don't know about rail switching though.

Well I don't know what a spline is, but for rail switching how bout using the quick step action with small changes so that you do a sideways jump and auto a-line with the rail? Any ideas how a balancing mechanic could work?

[Aerosol]

Heat-Nova, on 28 March 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

Well if you mean non-SA2 grinding then a modded 2D path would work with some effort. However SA2 type grinding, while a heavily modified 2D path could work, IMO it would be better to have a separate object and/or event. That way you wouldn't have the limits of a 2D path.
BTW...

Well I'm referring to learning from the path code, not literally using the entire 2D path code to make rails. Make Sonic follow a path, as that's all rails are. You then need a way to calculate the lateral curve of the path. Once you have that, you then need a button to activate crouching. And then once you have that, you need a way to determine whether Sonic should be in danger of falling off, like when he's going too fast and the curve is too tight, or when he's going too slowly. Add in some analogue controls that compare the value of the analogue with the lateral angle of the curve to determine whether Sonic is balanced enough to keep zipping along, and you are well on your way to implementing the only kind of grinding that matters!

[Twilightzoney]

Nah, I'm not working with Freerunner anymore. Can't deal with the troubles and crap they pull on that team. I have that Generations model finished, I've just been putting in some more work into the engine altering some things and making it more modernized so to say. I haven't been able to finish it up. But it was done up to enough where he released his updated version of this engine. I want to release it when I finish it for this modified engine, and then do the Classic Sonic from Generations as well.

Any chance we can get a real death animation instead of Ragdoll-ing. Since I'd like to try my hand at doing Classic Sonic dieing, but like Generations sonic with mouth swapping he'll have 3 mouths to swap with. So he'll show his center mouth when dieing instead. Besides I can't stand ragdolls much with this anyways. Unless that was changed, since I haven't been messing around with this much.

[Azukara]

AerosolSP, on 30 March 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Well I'm referring to learning from the path code, not literally using the entire 2D path code to make rails. Make Sonic follow a path, as that's all rails are. You then need a way to calculate the lateral curve of the path. Once you have that, you then need a button to activate crouching. And then once you have that, you need a way to determine whether Sonic should be in danger of falling off, like when he's going too fast and the curve is too tight, or when he's going too slowly. Add in some analogue controls that compare the value of the analogue with the lateral angle of the curve to determine whether Sonic is balanced enough to keep zipping along, and you are well on your way to implementing the only kind of grinding that matters!

Rather than worrying about balancing nearly as much, I'd just make Sonic have minimum force pushing him forward, and when crouching, he just acts as if it's rolling (but with a different animation, of course). Then whenever Sonic jumps or falls off the rail, he just "unlocks" from the path.

[P3DR0]

You guys really like that balance thing? I mean, it was cool, in Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, but for Sonic, not so much. It was all weird and didn't worked very well for Sonic (that's why they've removed it on the later games, I guess). Also I feel like it will be glitchy as fuck to reproduce it, and will have some issues on the 2.5D paths. But whatever, would be nice if someone who is doing made two versions, one with and another without the balance thing.

*sigh* I hate not knowing (and having minimal interest on) how to program.

[Heat-Nova]

AerosolSP, on 30 March 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Well I'm referring to learning from the path code, not literally using the entire 2D path code to make rails. Make Sonic follow a path, as that's all rails are. You then need a way to calculate the lateral curve of the path. Once you have that, you then need a button to activate crouching. And then once you have that, you need a way to determine whether Sonic should be in danger of falling off, like when he's going too fast and the curve is too tight, or when he's going too slowly. Add in some analogue controls that compare the value of the analogue with the lateral angle of the curve to determine whether Sonic is balanced enough to keep zipping along, and you are well on your way to implementing the only kind of grinding that matters!

Ooooh, ok that would help explain a few things. Wow your good at this kind of stuff!

Azukara, on 30 March 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

[Rather than worrying about balancing nearly as much, I'd just make Sonic have minimum force pushing him forward, and when crouching, he just acts as if it's rolling (but with a different animation, of course). Then whenever Sonic jumps or falls off the rail, he just "unlocks" from the path.

Well if he acted like he was rolling when crouching then going on an uphill rail would be way too hard, having a minimum force push you forward and the balancing mechanic would just be useless if you could get speed by doing nothing (Even if it is small). But that jumping off to break the path is a good idea, however it should be something similar to Sonic Generations where if you do a short hop you'd still follow the path, full jump to completely break off the path. But this would require shorthopping implemented, and if your full jump doesn't slow you down then short hopping is useless. But whatever, So with what AerosolSP said and the jumping off to break the path we could get started on this. I wish I knew more on programming so I could help out. (I'll try to learn faster XD)

P3DR0, on 30 March 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

You guys really like that balance thing? I mean, it was cool, in Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, but for Sonic, not so much. It was all weird and didn't worked very well for Sonic (that's why they've removed it on the later games, I guess). Also I feel like it will be glitchy as fuck to reproduce it, and will have some issues on the 2.5D paths. But whatever, would be nice if someone who is doing made two versions, one with and another without the balance thing.

*sigh* I hate not knowing (and having minimal interest on) how to program.

Yeah most of us really like it because it's alot more interactive than just boosting and occasionally jumping or switching rails. Well IMO I'm almost completely against 2.5D sections, I liked as a gimmick in Unleashed, Colors was just too much and I forgot I was playing a 3D game, I forgave Generations because it had good 3D platforming . I really hope it doesn't become a staple in later games. So to use it in 2.5 sections either no 2D sections or no rails in 2D sections. Have anyone disassembled SA2 yet?

[BlazeHedgehog]

I could take or leave grind rail balance. It was a good way to make grinding feel like "something" and make you go faster, but I can't say that I miss it too much from recent games.

Technically it was sort of implemented in Sonic Unleashed, though. If you hold left or right on a straight away rail I think Sonic plays a "Whoa I'm losing my balance" animation, but it doesn't impact his speed or anything.

This post has been edited by BlazeHedgehog: 30 March 2012 - 01:10 PM

[Heat-Nova]

BlazeHedgehog, on 30 March 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

I could take or leave grind rail balance. It was a good way to make grinding feel like "something" and make you go faster, but I can't say that I miss it too much from recent games.

Technically it was sort of implemented in Sonic Unleashed, though. If you hold left or right on a straight away rail I think Sonic plays a "Whoa I'm losing my balance" animation, but it doesn't impact his speed or anything.

Maybe they were going to implement it, since Unleashed was going to be a sonic adventure type game then it "strayed" too far from the original. But I don't really mind the grinding as long as it's kept to a minimum or used in natural places as I've said before in another post. But where getting off topic here, so what exactly do you have in mind for the next update Xaklse? Like, what's your main focus for the engine as of now?

[Aerosol]

I'd just like to say that I think rails are completely and utterly pointless in 2D, but if they were to be implemented, you'd just not have balancing when you're in a 2.5D section and on a rail at the same time. For 2.5D rail grinding, you'd program behavior similar to how grinding behaves in either the Rush or Advance series.

This post has been edited by AerosolSP: 31 March 2012 - 11:32 AM

[Xaklse]

Heat-Nova, on 26 March 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

Xaklse, on 26 March 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Heat-Nova, on 24 March 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

3. I don't know if this is intentional. But if you touch the Big Ring next to the half and full pipes the controls switch, to act to what I'm guessing to be a game pad, so the mouse only moves the camera right and left and it snaps when it does.

3. It's a goal ring.

Goal ring of switchy controls? lol whatever. [...] Hypothetically speaking if I were to model, rig, and animate a Tails model you would most likely program him in as a playable character? (Not that I'm planning on doing that).

Could you take a screenshot of the big ring? Because as far as I know there is no ring of switchy controls.
If you were able to provide me a Tails model, I would add it. Tails basicly is Classic Sonic with green wisp ability.

Twilightzoney, on 30 March 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

Any chance we can get a real death animation instead of Ragdoll-ing.

Nope, sorry.

Heat-Nova, on 30 March 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

But where getting off topic here, so what exactly do you have in mind for the next update Xaklse? Like, what's your main focus for the engine as of now?

Improve usability and add minor things mainly. After the next update, I think I won't add any more features, nobody is taking advantage of the cool stuff because it's too advanced or don't want to learn.

This post has been edited by Xaklse: 01 April 2012 - 04:24 PM

[Heat-Nova]

Xaklse, on 01 April 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Could you take a screenshot of the big ring? Because as far as I know there is no ring of switchy controls.
If you were able to provide me a Tails model, I would add it. Tails basicly is Classic Sonic with green wisp ability.

It doesn't seem to be happening 100% of the time now, odd very odd.

Xaklse, on 01 April 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Heat-Nova, on 30 March 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

But where getting off topic here, so what exactly do you have in mind for the next update Xaklse? Like, what's your main focus for the engine as of now?

Improve usability and add minor things mainly. After the next update, I think I won't add any more features, nobody is taking advantage of the cool stuff because it's too advanced or don't want to learn.

Well if it makes you fell better, I plan on starting a project with this engine in the near future and will use almost everything it has to offer so far.

[Ritz]

Xaklse, on 01 April 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Improve usability and add minor things mainly. After the next update, I think I won't add any more features, nobody is taking advantage of the cool stuff because it's too advanced or don't want to learn.

See, now the dash pad maps are getting to him.

[P3DR0]

Xaklse, on 01 April 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Improve usability and add minor things mainly. After the next update, I think I won't add any more features, nobody is taking advantage of the cool stuff because it's too advanced or don't want to learn.

Or maybe everyone is just waiting rails to get implemented on the engine. <3

Spoiler

Don't mind me, I just like to see the world on fire. Anyways I do believe that the complexity isn't really an issue, I guess that the bigger picture is that 3D ain't easy stuff, like you have to model shit (since BSPs in UDK are so godamn glitchy and fucked up), then you have to unwrap the UVs... Then you gotta make textures or at the very least, edit textures so it fits properly into de mesh. After that, if you want to get into a bigger detail you gotta edit that texture, make a specular map, a normal map. And if you wanna try a cool shader or something, have to write down some pretty fucked up expressions in the material editor that you don't even understand, really, you just know how to connect stuff and what's the right order to do it, but if someones asks you why, you can't tell.
And that's only one model (Like, for example, I spend almost an hour only modeling that palmtree on the Tropical Hedgehog video, twenty~thirty minutes creating the textures and five to get the toon shader material that's like one hour and half, for one simple model), now in order to create a full level you would have to do that much and god knows how many times. After all of that, you gotta work on the athmosphere of the composition, program the cameras and spline paths, place a few enemies, a few rings, etc... So really, I don't think that complexity isn't remotely part of the problem, honestly, I believe that lazyness or lack of modeling skills is why Sonic GDK isn't beeing put much into use. I mean, just look at the SonicBlitz stuff, how many modifications, and codes, and shit, we have a lot of different engines already like Sonic BGE, Sonic Dimensions, etc... So, complexity, I believe is off the chart on fangaming stuff. But if you look at the SonicBlitz stages you'll see that most of them (or maybe all of them) lacks details or at the very least, lack proper modeling (a.k.a most of the stages sucks).

This post has been edited by P3DR0: 03 April 2012 - 08:07 AM

[Candescence]

Yeah, as I said before, the lack of actual, usable assets is a severe barrier. It's much, much easier to create a 2D asset than a 3D one, and import it into your engine of choice.

If there were more in the way of suitable, open-source, general-purpose 3D assets out there, I imagine this wouldn't be so much of a problem.