[High Fidelity]

Dark Sonic, on 16 February 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

big smile, on 16 February 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

Dark Sonic, on 16 February 2017 - 08:18 AM, said:

If it's a 50/50 split between Classic and original levels we're likely seeing 10 levels + some kinda end game boss level.

I think Iizuka said it's not going to be a 50/50 split and there will be more classic levels. However, we've also been told it's a big game and there will be plenty of new content.

I honestly don't believe a thing that man says at this point. He just says stuff just because.

Haha. Yeah, hoping for more original content than that, but should be good game either way. It's in good hands. If this does well I would hope we see a new classic game with all new content, which would be nice.

Although this is SEGA and I can't fucking predict anything they do

Just a thought, but could this project have started out as a just a 3&K remaster but Stealth/Tax had new level ideas, so SEGA decided to incorporate those also? How was this project pitched, or did SEGA reach out to you guys?

[MaskedMage]

Actually, because we in this community can enjoy hacks that change mostly level design only (like Sonic 1 Alt, Sonic 3 DA Garden Edition or the recent Untitled Sonic 1 Hack, to name a few), it could be not a big problem for us if many classic zones are going to be reused. I differentiate Genesis Sonic games between each other less over time, so they are for me almost like sets of levels packaged with engine that has slight, if not none, modifications between each sets (save for the special stages). Similar instance is seen in classic Doom - 1, 2, Final and all fan-made vanilla mapsets.
On the other side though, we'd like to play something fresh as it is an upcoming commercial game.

[Sparks]

Things can always change mid-development too.

[HEDGESMFG]

So that panel starts about now. Any livestream or tweets we can follow for info?

Also, wonder if Mania will support modding? What if the next generation of Stealth/Taxman 2D fan turned pro devs are hackers who would hack Mania with new stages only to get hired someday?

Sonic-ception, anyone?

[Roller]

March 16, not February.

[MaskedMage]

By the way, according to what we've seen from videos and screens, I assume that Special Stages will be accessed through well-hidden Giant Rings, like in S3&K. It's.. kind of meh for me. I don't like this way much as it focuses more on exploration than the real essence of the gameplay. I definitely prefer the "gotta go fast" thing and keeping at least 50 rings, whether the access opens above checkpoints or finish signs. At least Special Stages in S3&K are really fun, so I hope Mania will also offer awesome Emerald hunt.

[High Fidelity]

MaskedMage, on 17 February 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

By the way, according to what we've seen from videos and screens, I assume that Special Stages will be accessed through well-hidden Giant Rings, like in S3&K. It's.. kind of meh for me. I don't like this way much as it focuses more on exploration than the real essence of the gameplay. I definitely prefer the "gotta go fast" thing and keeping at least 50 rings, whether the access opens above checkpoints or finish signs. At least Special Stages in S3&K are really fun, so I hope Mania will also offer awesome Emerald hunt.

I actually prefer the way 3&K done the special stages, more than any other Sonic game.

Finding and holding onto 50 rings then hunting down a lampost, or opening a goal ring is harder, imo

[MaskedMage]

Probably it may be harder. But analogically in S3&K - when you're unlucky enough by taking paths that contains the least Giant Rings, you may end up accessing Special Stages less than 7 times. I guess that's why you can access SS infinitely after beating the game, as a recompensation. Still, there are some players who will feel better if they get all emeralds in one run.
So I hope Mania will have a fair amount of attempts in SS, cause it's really easy to make mistakes out there.

[High Fidelity]

MaskedMage, on 17 February 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Probably it may be harder. But analogically in S3&K - when you're unlucky enough by taking paths that contains the least Giant Rings, you may end up accessing Special Stages less than 7 times. I guess that's why you can access SS infinitely after beating the game, as a recompensation. Still, there are some players who will feel better if they get all emeralds in one run.
So I hope Mania will have a fair amount of attempts in SS, cause it's really easy to make mistakes out there.

Or if they are really feeling sadistic they can always do it a la' Sonic Advance 3

[Dark Sonic]

High Fidelity, on 17 February 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

MaskedMage, on 17 February 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Probably it may be harder. But analogically in S3&K - when you're unlucky enough by taking paths that contains the least Giant Rings, you may end up accessing Special Stages less than 7 times. I guess that's why you can access SS infinitely after beating the game, as a recompensation. Still, there are some players who will feel better if they get all emeralds in one run.
So I hope Mania will have a fair amount of attempts in SS, cause it's really easy to make mistakes out there.

Or if they are really feeling sadistic they can always do it a la' Sonic Advance 3

That's nothing compared to Sonic Advance 2's masochism.

[OcelotBot]

MaskedMage, on 17 February 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Probably it may be harder. But analogically in S3&K - when you're unlucky enough by taking paths that contains the least Giant Rings, you may end up accessing Special Stages less than 7 times. I guess that's why you can access SS infinitely after beating the game, as a recompensation. Still, there are some players who will feel better if they get all emeralds in one run.
So I hope Mania will have a fair amount of attempts in SS, cause it's really easy to make mistakes out there.

From the footage we've seen, each act appears to have two giant rings. Whether this is the same across all acts is anyone's guess. Considering Mania is going to be a big game (I'm guessing at 14 zones; 8 re-imagined and 6 new) I think two special stages per act (like in 3D blast) is more than enough. We can only assume you won't need to collect rings to access the special stages like in 3&K, but whose knows...

Some acts in 3&K have as many as three or four giant rings (Marble Garden act 1 has eight) so it was never hard to find enough special stages to get the emeralds and the blue-sphere special stages are probably the easiest out all the classics games.

As for what you said about "I don't like this way much as it focuses more on exploration than the real essence of the gameplay, gotta go fast".

Erm, there's a lot more to the classics than hold-right-to-win! Going fast is fun to an extent, but using your skill (and speed) to find and explore all multiple routes, uncovering all hidden secrets is the real appeal of the classics for me, and finding hidden giant-rings in 3&K always feels rewarding. I'm gonna love exploring every inch of Studiopolis & Mirage Saloon!

This post has been edited by OcelotBot: 17 February 2017 - 01:06 PM

[TimmiT]

https://twitter.com/...658743137406977

[High Fidelity]

Dark Sonic, on 17 February 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

High Fidelity, on 17 February 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

MaskedMage, on 17 February 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Probably it may be harder. But analogically in S3&K - when you're unlucky enough by taking paths that contains the least Giant Rings, you may end up accessing Special Stages less than 7 times. I guess that's why you can access SS infinitely after beating the game, as a recompensation. Still, there are some players who will feel better if they get all emeralds in one run.
So I hope Mania will have a fair amount of attempts in SS, cause it's really easy to make mistakes out there.

Or if they are really feeling sadistic they can always do it a la' Sonic Advance 3 />/>/>

That's nothing compared to Sonic Advance 2's masochism.

That's what I meant to say

Edit: that new roller bandick looks great

Edit 2: best typo, leaving it

This post has been edited by High Fidelity: 17 February 2017 - 01:39 PM

[MaskedMage]

OcelotBot, on 17 February 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

[...]

Erm, there's a lot more to the classics than hold-right-to-win! Going fast is fun to an extent, but using your skill (and speed) to find and explore all multiple routes, uncovering all hidden secrets is the real appeal of the classics for me, and finding hidden giant-rings in 3&K always feels rewarding. I'm gonna love exploring every inch of Studiopolis & Mirage Saloon!

Actually, I didn't imply that hold-right-to-win is essential as rather doesn't fit my statement, especially when 50 rings have to be secured. Sonic games offer momentum-based gameplay. IMO the control and physics of Sonic are so complex and fun that can be compared to other physic-based games. The level design encourages to use the potential of controls and physics to the max in order to get as much fun of it. That's why even highly skilled players can enjoy these game the more the better games are beaten - in order words there is a very little chance to have the fun and replayability "bottlenecked" as in Mario. If not this, I would play instead other games more. Not to mention it's satisfying to see great time- and ring bonus then a mere 100 pts in the end of a level. Compare it to Tetris The GrandMaster - a subseries that I prefer greatly over standard Tetris. In short: what TGM is to Tetris, the same is Sonic to Mario.

With that said, the search for Giant Rings in the middle of a level, especially when they are in Guide-Dang-it places hidden, breaks my aforementioned "philosophy", thus by some extent the gameplay nature of Sonic.

This post has been edited by MaskedMage: 17 February 2017 - 05:06 PM

[Yeow]

MaskedMage, on 17 February 2017 - 05:04 PM, said:

With that said, the search for Giant Rings in the middle of a level, especially when they are in Guide-Dang-it places hidden, breaks my aforementioned "philosophy", thus by some extent the gameplay nature of Sonic.

I don't really see how it does. While Special Stages do hold influence to the outcome of the story, I argue that aren't a necessity to really enjoy the primary gameplay. At their core, they're minigames the player can either choose to play to take a break from the standard levels, or ignore and continue the main campaign. Moreover, excluding Sonic 1, the minigames themselves also don't focus on the controls/physics as much as the main gameplay, if they do at all; if anything, the Sonic 3&K's Bonus Stages hold a higher focus in the player's controls/physics in comparison. They are called "Special" Stages for a reason, after all.

But I'll humor your assertion that it does affect the gameplay nature of Sonic. I can understand your argument on how searching for Giant Rings can break the pace or intended design, I don't think that means (hidden) Giant Rings are inherently incompatible. Levels or level gimmicks can be designed so that how the player utilizes the controls / physics is part and partial towards getting to a Giant Ring. For example, a treadmill that requires the player to build enough speed up to cause the ground to give away and reveal a Giant Ring hidden under there. A high-placed platform that has a Giant Ring placed next to it; which can only be reached by the player jumping up a small hill incline with the right amount of momentum. A gimmick that when bounced on multiple times, takes the player to a Giant Ring placed high above it. Multi-way loops or chutes/tunnels that take the player to a room with a Giant Ring, based on whether a player runs or rolls inside it or their input direction. Just spitballing some basic ideas here, but those are some examples I feel would allow for exploration without going against momentum-based gameplay under your definition.

This post has been edited by Yeow: 17 February 2017 - 09:01 PM