[Krigo]

The game right now looks like it's aiming too much towards cheap difficulty rather than actual challenge.

Of course, that is your decision so I can't make you have the game with a fair challenge.

[D.A. Garden]

As somebody who is currently hacking S3K (and has been for quite a while), I'd like to say I was a little happy that someone else had decided to hack S3K as well... I'd have liked to say that, I really would. Let's break it down the only way I know how:

Level layout - Thus far, I see a lot of chunks that don't connect together properly. I know that AIZ1 is a difficult level to modify (Hell, I revised my own new layout for it several times and it is still not perfect) but this needs some more work. If you look at how the original level pieced them together as a basis, you'll be able to get something consistent. AIZ2 is a bit easier to edit but it still has a lot of misplaced chunks, which don't look good.

Glitches - You have already noted that there a number of glitches that you are aware of and the layout itself gives host to a ton of new ones. I can explain a few; (1) The waterfall platforms don't load the correct art because the art doesn't exist in AIZ1. They were created solely for AIZ2. (2) SMB1 scrolling (and the title card freezing for a few seconds) can only be triggered by a misplaced object with the wrong object ID or you have moved a level specific object that needs to be in a specific place for an event to work. I don't know which but you need to change one of these back. (3) Starting positions that are editable are different from ones that are hard coded from an event. If you want to change those, you'll have to look at the events and see how they work.

Knuckles - I agree with everyone else; Knuckles' Chaotix sprite doesn't really work and unless you fix the mappings and remake Sonic and Tails in the same way, I can't see it working too well.

Conclusion: I came in excited, I left disappointed. I don't want to feel like I am an expert in how S3K works (I'm far from it) but after spending a few years working with it (specifically layouts), I know a bit about how layouts are done within S3K's limitations. I feel that if you take some considerable time to create a layout, then it will come out a lot better than a rushed one. That being said, don't feel disheartened by what I have said. Take it as feedback (which I hope it is) and use it to better your work.

This post has been edited by D.A. Garden: 09 October 2011 - 11:49 AM

[Robjoe]

D.A. Garden, on 09 October 2011 - 11:47 AM, said:

Level layout - Thus far, I see a lot of chunks that don't connect together properly. I know that AIZ1 is a difficult level to modify (Hell, I revised my own new layout for it several times and it is still not perfect) but this needs some more work. If you look at how the original level pieced them together as a basis, you'll be able to get something consistent. AIZ2 is a bit easier to edit but it still has a lot of misplaced chunks, which don't look good.

You're correct that AIZ1's chunk selection is complete and utter garbage. The vanilla level was only ever meant to fly by in about half a minute, and it definitely shows. There's some really basic stuff missing from the original chunk list, such as certain ledges and hills, and walls. It was stuff like this that caused me to call it quits on the game back in about 2006 or so.

However, it's not 2006 anymore. SonED2 supports Sonic 3 and is completely capable of remapping the 128x128 chunks, as well as the 16x16 blocks and even 8x8 tiles if you really need/want to. Limited chunk selection is no longer an excuse for a messy level.

Tamkis: If you're serious about working with Sonic 3, then I suggest getting familiar with SonED2's tile editor and utilizing it when you can't find what you want in the chunk list. Once you understand how it works, you can start doing cool stuff and adding variety that AIZ1 never had before:

[muteKi]

D.A. Garden, on 09 October 2011 - 11:47 AM, said:

Knuckles - I agree with everyone else; Knuckles' Chaotix sprite doesn't really work and unless you fix the mappings and remake Sonic and Tails in the same way, I can't see it working too well.

But that's not very hard to do. Go with the Sonic CD sprite sheet for Sonic as appropriate, and it should fit just fine, though you may want to adjust palettes in the process.

[Tamkis]

With the preview release made (although not that great according to popinion), I will be concentratring on music and character art, in that order, before working on any more levels. Below is my proposed playlist for the music, copied from an excel sheet. Since there were 2 free music slots in the standard music banks, I added a separate song for HPZ and for the Special stage results. The songs are mostly from S2F, S3D, SC/KC, and some other games. How do you like the playlist so far? Any comments/suggestions?

Key:
S3D=Sonic 3D Blast
SC=Sonic Crackers
KC=Knuckles Chaotix
S2F= Sonic 2 Final
R=Ristar
MJM= Michael Jacksons Moonwalker
SNN= Sonineko (hack)
MM2RW=Megaman 2: The Robotnik Wars (my own hack)

Dest	Src
AIZ1	GGZ1 (S3d)
AIZ2	Boss theme (MJM)
HZ1	RRZ1 (S3d)
HZ2	RRZ2 (S3d)
MGZ1	HTZ (S2F)
MGZ2	Billie Jean (MJM)
CNZ1	Speed of Sound (KC)
CNZ2	Childs Song (KC)
FBZ1	Walking (SC)
FBZ2	Electoria (SC)
MHZ1	Shooting Ristar (R
MHZ2	Dancing leaves (R
SZ1	Beat It (MJM)
SZ2	Labyrinth (KC)
LRZ1	VVZ1 (s3d)
LRZ2	VVZ2 (s3d)
SSZ	SCZ (S2F)
DEZ1	DEZ (S2F)
DEZ2	GGZ2 (S3D)
Act 1 Boss	Crazy Kings (R
Act 2 Boss	Boss (S3d)
Doomsday	Greedy Game (Ristr)
Rolling Jump Bonus Stage	Busy Flare (R
Special Stage	Special Stage (s3d)
Slot Machine Bonus Stage	Nice meeting you (KC)
Knuckles' Theme	Surprise (KC)
Title	S3D Title
1UP	1up (S2F)
Chaos Emerald	n/a
ICZ1	ICZ S3&KC (SNN)
ICZ2	DDZ1 (s3d)
LBZ1	LBZ S3&KC (SNN)
LBZ2	Hyper-Hyper (SC)
Gum Ball Machine Bonus Stage	2 player results (s2F)
Azure Lake	Door into sumr (KC)
Balloon Park	Moonrise (SC)
Desert Palace	Combination (KC)
Chrome Gadget	Evening star (SC)
Endless Mine	MCZ 2p (S2F)
*HPZ	HPZ (S2F)
Competition Menu	Chaotic World (KC)
*S3 countdown/Continue	From Party to Prty (KC)
Game/Time Over	Mechanical Dance (KC)
*Special Stage clr	Overture (KC)
Act clr	Act clear (KC)
Invincible	Invin MMWW (mm2rw)
Menu	Take off (KC)
Final Boss	Oriental Legend (KC)
S3&K credits	n/a
S3&K outro		n/a

[Tamkis]

Good news, another DEMO update is available! Many new features have been inserted into the ROM, including:

A new SEGA PCM sound effect ("I'm outta here!", from Sonic CD)
More, better-aligned Knuckle's art from Knuckle's Chaotix
Improved Knuckle's palette for the art
Ported Music! (Though, some are WIP and need retouched from its initial port)
3 new player modes (Blue Knuckles, Red Knuckles and Tails, Blue Knuckles and Tails)
Improved AIZ
2 modified, harder special stages (the 2nd is a WIP)
1 new monitor (reverse gravity monitor. Currently only available in Debug mode)

See the first post for more information

Some pictures showing the new player modes:




Things I am working on:

Fixing general bugs
Fixing bugs pertaining to Blue Knuckles modes
Creating new special stages
Other things


C&CC is welcomed, as always. Would you guys like me to write SCHG how-tos on how to enable Blue Knuckles, and how to make Red/Blue Knuckles & Tails mode?

[Puto]

Tamkis, on 13 October 2011 - 01:59 PM, said:

DEZ1 DEZ (S2F)

This is a terrible idea. The S2 Death Egg song was clearly only meant to play for a few seconds before you encounter the boss, and it shows -- it clearly isn't fit for a full level.

[Tamkis]

Puto, on 15 October 2011 - 08:01 PM, said:

Tamkis, on 13 October 2011 - 01:59 PM, said:

DEZ1 DEZ (S2F)

This is a terrible idea. The S2 Death Egg song was clearly only meant to play for a few seconds before you encounter the boss, and it shows -- it clearly isn't fit for a full level.

Luckily, that is one of the only songs that aren't in the game yet (right now, a placeholder song is there). I can always change it, though to what, I don't know. I might just use Gene Gadget Zone A1 for that, or something else.

[GT Koopa]

Puto, on 15 October 2011 - 08:01 PM, said:

Tamkis, on 13 October 2011 - 01:59 PM, said:

DEZ1 DEZ (S2F)

This is a terrible idea. The S2 Death Egg song was clearly only meant to play for a few seconds before you encounter the boss, and it shows -- it clearly isn't fit for a full level.

I disagree. It doesn't play long enough in the actual game (if you run right at the start) so most people miss it. Why NOT have a full level where we can hear it more? X Zone from Sonic Advance has the same problem. You would never know there was more to the song than the first loop.






Also all Boss music in the Sonic Advance series that only last for 4 hits.

[Robjoe]

The issue I see is mainly that the sounds like it won't even fit in Sonic 3, stylistically. It's not the type of song that comes to mind when I imagine the huge, open areas seen in the Sonic 3 iteration of Death Egg Zone.

Speaking of clashing styles: I honestly recommend just ditching the Chaotix Knuckles sprites. Unless you really want to redraw Sonic and Tails (and other miscellaneous pieces of art) in the same style, Knuckles will just stick out like a sore thumb.

There's tons of things that just plain don't fit in this hack, right down to your replacement of the Sega PCM. Just because you can change something doesn't necessarily mean you should.