[Aerosol]

Sadv looks different from sadv2 and 3.

[SpeedStarTMQ]

AerosolSP, on 24 March 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

Sadv looks different from sadv2 and 3.

Kinda. The character art itself is basicaly the same, though Sonic has a Dreamcast era version of his original spin-feet run. The art style in Sonic Advance is also very detailed, whereas the sequels try to be a bit more minimal like the classics. See the style change below:
Sonic Advance

Sonic Advance 2

Sonic Advance 3


This is much like the classics, which never had a set style of art work. Sonic in each game was different and each location style varied greatly. It's good to have change, but not as far as the 3D games are concerned. Sonic from Sonic Heroes doesn't feel like the same Sonic from Unleashed, because it's a totally different world. Colours and Generations have gotten it spot on though. There was nothing really in Unleashed that couldn't have been placed in the real world, minus the springs and obvious objects.

This post has been edited by SpeedStarTMQ: 25 March 2012 - 05:52 AM

[Candescence]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 24 March 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

*Text dump*

As much as I'd like to just end the argument right now, there are just some things I can't leave be.

The major problem with all this is, you assume that the 'other dimension' is another place in time, when the Rushes have explicitly stated that Blaze originates from an alternate universe - a completely different world, at least. And while the developers aren't terribly consistent with Sonic's world as it is, it's completely different from Blaze's world in ways that simply can't be explained by the passage of time. Not to mention the fact that the Chaos and Sol Emeralds causing the world to be destroyed by their proximity in the same dimension, were it not for Sonic and Blaze actually keeping them in check, kinda implies that they shouldn't exist in the same timeline, period, under normal circumstances.

Besides, Ian Flynn did his own in-depth analysis of the whole thing. Assuming that Rivals is in fact canon, he ended up coming to the conclusion that Blaze, in her current incarnation, has never met Silver, and that Eggman Nega comes from both the future AND an alternate dimension. Pretty weird, I know, but I think his conclusions are fairly solid.

He also points out there is at least one unknown variable left - whether the whole thing with Blaze's sacrifice even happened in the first place, considering Sonic 06 pretty much erased itself from canon. But there is another variable I've been wondering - are there alternate dimensional counterparts of Blaze from both universes? This is quite possible in itself.

But, yeah, this isn't really the topic for it, and there's not enough information for an answer to be truly definitive, but I do believe personally that the Blaze we currently know is from an alternate dimension, and I prefer it that way.

This post has been edited by Candescence: 25 March 2012 - 09:37 AM

[SpeedStarTMQ]

Candescence, on 25 March 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

SpeedStarTMQ, on 24 March 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

*Text dump*

As much as I'd like to just end the argument right now, there are just some things I can't leave be.

The major problem with all this is, you assume that the 'other dimension' is another place in time, when the Rushes have explicitly stated that Blaze originates from an alternate universe - a completely different world, at least. And while the developers aren't terribly consistent with Sonic's world as it is, it's completely different from Blaze's world in ways that simply can't be explained by the passage of time. Not to mention the fact that the Chaos and Sol Emeralds causing the world to be destroyed by their proximity in the same dimension, were it not for Sonic and Blaze actually keeping them in check, kinda implies that they shouldn't exist in the same timeline, period, under normal circumstances.

No, they never ever stated that it was a different universe. Not once- that is the problem. If you play through Sonic Rush and its sequel they never explicitly say that it's another universe. Sonic and all his allies simply do not know. The issue is that everyone assumed the opposite, that because Blazes own 'world' merged with Sonic's and that it looks different that it's another dimension. This is cleared up when you play Sonic 2006 or both the Rivals games, which reveal the truth. It's all to do with time travel.

In her current incarnation (Rush & Rivals timeline), Blaze hasn't met Silver as far as we know because it isn't alluded to or seen. She's also a princess, whereas Sonic 2006 refers to her as a queen. This is due to the totally different events leading up to her life in each respective timeline. Ian Flynn seems to have it basically spot on. If a future timeline is removed/cut off from the its current path, surely it becomes an alternate dimension? Therefore, Blaze's world IS an alternative dimension, it's both, because the timeline is swapped and changed by actions in the present- the future is not set, and Sonic CD confirms this is how the past/future affect each other. By travelling back and forth through time, characters create alternate times, which technically become alternate dimensions. The same applies to most media including time travel, such as The Terminator, Dragon Ball Z, The Legend of Zelda etc. An example being that in Zelda, Twilight Princess happens in another timeline which has been forcefully removed from the norm by Link travelling back to his childhood. In his original time, Wind Waker occurs, but in another time (which surely must be another dimension due to the split) events lead to Twilight Princess instead.

Seeing it from this perspective, but then ALSO havingto take in to account that time in the entire Sonic World actually RESET, one can realise that Blaze never made the sacrifice in 2006, because although the time branched off, time was reset, so no events leading up to anything invloving Iblis/Mephiles/Flames of Disaster happened at all. Ever. As such, if anyone wanted to play through the entire Sonic series in order, they could technically completely omit Sonic 2006, zip straight to Rush and Rush Adventure, and then play Rivals.

Also take in to account that every timeline split can create a duplicate character. There could even be TWO Eggman Nega, though I can't assume that's the case because it isn't stated.

Other things which relate Blaze and Sonic's world is Sky Babylon, which is an exact lookalike of Babylon from Sonic Riders both on the map screen and in game, the prescence of gems called SOL Emeralds, related surely to the Sol god, as well as a princess who guards them, which links Blaze to Elise, both commanders of the fire element.

There's so much in this to simply pretend it's not part of a timeline issue. There's actually not a shed of evidence to prove otherwise :P

I like interesting shit in my Sonic games.

This post has been edited by SpeedStarTMQ: 25 March 2012 - 12:44 PM

[Aerosol]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 25 March 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

AerosolSP, on 24 March 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

Sadv looks different from sadv2 and 3.

Kinda. The character art itself is basicaly the same, though Sonic has a Dreamcast era version of his original spin-feet run. The art style in Sonic Advance is also very detailed, whereas the sequels try to be a bit more minimal like the classics. See the style change below:

*images*

This is much like the classics, which never had a set style of art work. Sonic in each game was different and each location style varied greatly. It's good to have change, but not as far as the 3D games are concerned. Sonic from Sonic Heroes doesn't feel like the same Sonic from Unleashed, because it's a totally different world. Colours and Generations have gotten it spot on though. There was nothing really in Unleashed that couldn't have been placed in the real world, minus the springs and obvious objects.

Well I was only really referring to the background art in Sadv compared to 2 and 3. Sadv is quite detailed, where 2 and 3 are less so. In other words, 2 and 3 are more similar to each other than 1 is to either of them in terms of background art.

This post has been edited by AerosolSP: 25 March 2012 - 12:53 PM

[Knucklez]

AerosolSP, on 25 March 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

SpeedStarTMQ, on 25 March 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

AerosolSP, on 24 March 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

Sadv looks different from sadv2 and 3.

Kinda. The character art itself is basicaly the same, though Sonic has a Dreamcast era version of his original spin-feet run. The art style in Sonic Advance is also very detailed, whereas the sequels try to be a bit more minimal like the classics. See the style change below:

*images*

This is much like the classics, which never had a set style of art work. Sonic in each game was different and each location style varied greatly. It's good to have change, but not as far as the 3D games are concerned. Sonic from Sonic Heroes doesn't feel like the same Sonic from Unleashed, because it's a totally different world. Colours and Generations have gotten it spot on though. There was nothing really in Unleashed that couldn't have been placed in the real world, minus the springs and obvious objects.

Well I was only really referring to the background art in Sadv compared to 2 and 3. Sadv is quite detailed, where 2 and 3 are less so. In other words, 2 and 3 are more similar to each other than 1 is to either of them in terms of background art.

Actually it's not just the art that made 2 and 3 different from 1. They blew 2 and 3 out of proportions with most of the core concepts of the game. Advance 1 felt really reminiscent of the MD titles, but 2 and 3 went more in the direction Dimps would end up taking with the Rush series. The lack of creativity and effort put in was spot on.. they just threw in as many loops and straightaways for nonstop speeding through as they could, taking out most of the platforming 1 had, IMO.

This post has been edited by Knucklez: 25 March 2012 - 01:03 PM

[Aerosol]

Knucklez, on 25 March 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Actually it's not just the art that made 2 and 3 different from 1. They blew 2 and 3 out of proportions with most of the core concepts of the game. Advance 1 felt really reminiscent of the MD titles, but 2 and 3 went more in the direction Dimps would end up taking with the Rush series. The lack of creativity and effort put in was spot on.. they just threw in as many loops and straightaways for nonstop speeding through as they could, taking out most of the platforming 1 had, IMO.

I know that. We were only talking about the art, though.

[Clutch]

In terms of the player character rather than environment, Sonic Advance 2 and 3 also generally have a lot more character animation, but the same style. This lets them use sprites that've been there since Advance 1, but supplement them with new material.

For instance, Advance 1 follows the example of the Genesis games, with 1 animation set for walking/sprinting, another animation set for full-speed running, and shared animations between rolling and jumping. The other 2 have added "slow walk" frames to show a more fluid buildup in character momentum and provide alternate jumping frames for Knuckles and Sonic (probably because using the existing spin animation made them look like tiny airborne marbles).

This post has been edited by Clutch: 25 March 2012 - 01:46 PM

[Felik]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 25 March 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

post

You are forgetting that Sonic Colors DS pretty much confirmed that Sonic 06 DID happen in a canonical way.

[SpeedStarTMQ]

Felik, on 25 March 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

SpeedStarTMQ, on 25 March 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

post

You are forgetting that Sonic Colors DS pretty much confirmed that Sonic 06 DID happen in a canonical way.

In what way? I said 2006 did happen, though none of the characters remember.

[Machenstein]

This is why I prefer head canon.

[Knucklez]

I prefer to disregard 2006 because it happened, but never happened.

The whole event was so cliche.. going on with that whole someone travels to the past to undo all the horrible events of the future, then after it's all said and done, time and space dematerializes and returns to peaceful point it was intended. Typical crap.

You can somewhat relate this to Dragonball Z. Trunks comes from the future to stop the Androids, so Earth doesn't wind up into the hell hole he escaped. I wouldn't be surprised if Sonic Team was directly inspired by ideas from other franchises. They've done it before, multiple times.

Seriously though. Silver came from 200 years in the future. Tell me. Is that time period even remotely significant to the Sonic canon, let alone Sonic himself? How about introducing a random psychokinetic hedgehog and pyrokinetic cat to help save the day? Hell no..

[Vaiyt]

Future vs. alternate dimension.

I haven't played Rush/SRA enough to see, but if it isn't stated in the game, fans (including me) have drawn the conclusion because, well, Eggman Nega gives off the idea of "negative", as in a photo negative, which evokes the idea of him being a parallel counterpart to Eggman. That, together with Blaze that mirrors Sonic's abilities, and the Sol Emeralds that mirror the Chaos Emeralds, made the conclusion very easy.

By the way, did Sega explain the Sol Emeralds in the future?

This post has been edited by Vaiyt: 28 March 2012 - 02:17 AM

[Limey Otoko]

Vaiyt, on 28 March 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

Future vs. alternate dimension.

I haven't played Rush/SRA enough to see, but if it isn't stated in the game, fans (including me) have drawn the conclusion because, well, Eggman Nega gives off the idea of "negative", as in a photo negative, which evokes the idea of him being a parallel counterpart to Eggman. That, together with Blaze that mirrors Sonic's abilities, and the Sol Emeralds that mirror the Chaos Emeralds, made the conclusion very easy.

By the way, did Sega explain the Sol Emeralds in the future?

They're never mentioned in 2006, but who knows - in that timeline they may never have been created. For the record Rush/SRA never say 'another dimension' .. they say 'another world' and Robotnik was messing with the Time/Space continuum. Destroying 2006 and making it never happen just puts Blaze/Silver into a Good Future. Which could easily be mistaken by the guys as 'another world', especially with Eggman Nega's lying, which he admits to in Rivals 2.

I'd say it's not a case of parallels so much as a case of history repeating itself.

[Mystical Ninja]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 25 March 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

In what way?

During the cutscene that's triggered after getting an "S" rank in the third Sweet Mountain mission, Silver was shown to have slight recollection of those events, since he said that it "[felt] almost as if [he and Blaze] paired up before".