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Shenmue I & II The saga begins... again

#31 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 03 September 2018 - 11:50 AM

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Quote

Hi Shenmue fans,

Thank you for your patience and all your feedback on the previous patch. We've now rolled patch v1.01 over to the default branch and are staging a new patch v2 on a beta branch for community testing. As always, participation in this patch is voluntary, if you are not experiencing any of the issues below we recommend you stay on the default branch and do not download the patch.

Please note that patch v2 includes the fixes from patch v1.01, and so the patch notes include fixes from both patches.

Your feedback helps us a great deal. Please report any issue you encounter post-patch in this thread with your system specs.

"Hi Shenmue fans! Wanna work for SEGA? Now you can do it! For FREE!" D:


Seriously, what is with SEGA seemingly not hiring betatesters anymore. This is making them look really bad.
This post has been edited by ICEknight: 03 September 2018 - 11:51 AM

#32 User is offline biggestsonicfan 

Posted 03 September 2018 - 02:09 PM

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View PostICEknight, on 03 September 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

Seriously, what is with SEGA seemingly not hiring betatesters anymore. This is making them look really bad.

It's better than no patches to be honest, which is what I was expecting.

#33 User is offline sonicblur 

Posted 03 September 2018 - 05:27 PM

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View PostICEknight, on 03 September 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

Seriously, what is with SEGA seemingly not hiring betatesters anymore. This is making them look really bad.

I think they knew about the problems before release and just didn't have the time to fix them. They probably wanted to get the game out before all of the big releases coming later so that it wouldn't be completely passed over. Some of the problems are so obvious that they must have known about them. In the first 20 minutes of Shenmue 2 you hear multiple audio tracks that sound awful because decay wasn't working correctly yet. (Arm Wrestling, Queens Street) Not to mention the black levels problem was noticeable in the trailers before release and we pointed it out back then, but were fooled into thinking it was fixed already by older screenshots that were taken before they broke it.

I had initially thought that the reason Japan wasn't getting the game for over 3 months after the rest of the world was because of localization reasons (as Japanese text is not an option in the western release despite offering Japanese VO) but it was figured out less than 24 hours after release that the Japanese localization is present and you just need to manually set the language as selected in the config file on PC to use it. While we may never know the true reason, I think the Japanese release date was set based on when they believed all of the issues could be completely resolved so that the version on disc for Japan doesn't need a day-one patch.


I played around with the PCv2 patch today. It fixes some audio problems, but it's still not 100% correct yet. Shenmue 1 finally has footsteps everywhere like it should now, and the ones outdoors that I heard in my short testing were fine, but inside the Hazuki residence they were weird sounding. Shenmue 2's music now has instruments decay properly, so the Arm Wrestling music doesn't sound terrible now but it still sounds off. At least it's to the point where it's not so bad that it's annoying.

I decided to take a break shortly after starting Shenmue II, because the black levels bothered me a lot. Everything in the shade was way too dark and hard to see, even with contrast set to +100. I'm going to go back to it after Yakuza Kiwami 2, where hopefully the console versions will have caught up with PC. The point that the PC version is at now is probably what it should have been at launch. The remaining issues are things I think they need to fix still, but as far as I've seen PC is at least to the point where the remaining problems don't make the game too annoying to play.

#34 User is offline Ch1pper 

Posted 05 September 2018 - 08:05 AM

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View Postsonicblur, on 03 September 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

I decided to take a break shortly after starting Shenmue II, because the black levels bothered me a lot. Everything in the shade was way too dark and hard to see, even with contrast set to +100.


Is that what it is? Ugh, I thought it was weird that I had to set the games (on PS4) to +25 contrast and on my TV separately just to see anything.

#35 User is offline sonicblur 

Posted 05 September 2018 - 06:21 PM

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View Postsonicblur, on 03 September 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

View PostICEknight, on 03 September 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

Seriously, what is with SEGA seemingly not hiring betatesters anymore. This is making them look really bad.

I think they knew about the problems before release and just didn't have the time to fix them.

We now have confirmation of that being the case. Saw this posted on ResetEra earlier today - John from Digital Foundry was on a podcast where they start talking about Shenmue 1&2 around 30 minutes in:
http://backinmyplay....gs-music-ports/

Sega provided reviewers with a list of known bugs prior to release and asked that they not be considered in reviews because they would be fixing them with the day one patch. When John made his video that came out on release day, the bugs were not mentioned because he was assuming they would be fixed by the patch that hasn't really happened yet. I'd love to see a reviewer leak the list...

View PostCh1pper, on 05 September 2018 - 08:05 AM, said:

View Postsonicblur, on 03 September 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

I decided to take a break shortly after starting Shenmue II, because the black levels bothered me a lot. Everything in the shade was way too dark and hard to see, even with contrast set to +100.


Is that what it is? Ugh, I thought it was weird that I had to set the games (on PS4) to +25 contrast and on my TV separately just to see anything.

The problem only affects Shenmue II. For the first game, I did set my contrast to +25 like you did but everything was consistent in that game so increasing the level did make it closer to the original.

This is a non-technical explanation, but in Shenmue II's case darkness seems to be multiplied instead of added so dark things get too dark too fast so contrast adjustment doesn't help with that. I believe the patch is due on Friday, but we still don't know if it's the 2.0 patch that PC got last week on the beta branch or if it's just the 1.0.1 patch that PC got the week prior. I'm hoping for 2.0 because that one fixes most of the major problems including music decay.

#36 User is offline sonicblur 

Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:11 AM

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I finished the PS4 version of Shenmue II tonight, so I figured it was a good time to bump this. I had taken a break for Yakuza Kiwami 2 but came back and did a relatively complete Shenmue II play through. Didn't get all capsule toys since there's not really a point to that, but I did get every single move scroll for the first time including the two that you have to win from playing Lucky Hit. Also got the Platinum trophy, which isn't too hard.

The black level problem in Shenmue II mentioned in the previous post(s) was indeed corrected in the patch the followed. The music was improved too, such that the missing decay is working correctly in the current (as of this post) PS4 build. There are still a handful of tracks that are a bit off, and the Tomato Mart song in Shenmue II is absolutely awful. PC got a new patch last week that fixed music even more, almost everything including the Tomato Mart theme is nearly perfect now. Some people are claiming some things are slightly off pitch, but I haven't really noticed anything other than the mixing maybe sounding slightly cleaner than the original. (Maybe Shenmue 1 still has problems?) In the quick 20 minutes I testing I did on last week's PC patch for Shenmue 2, the only outstanding audio problems that I noticed remain with sound effects like water fountains, including the little melody that plays when you walk near the Tomato Mart from outside which is still awful. Overall though the biggest problems are already patched on console including the cutscene bug in Shenmue I. There's supposed to be a new console patch coming at some point that will include the audio and misc improvements that PC got last week. At the rate they've been fixing things, they only have a few outstanding issues left on PC to fix so perhaps by the time the Japanese PS4 release is out in November they could have all of the problems fixed.


Shenmue II did crash on me a couple of times after playing Afterburner II, but otherwise I didn't run into any problems as bad as people got in the first game before the patch was released. I was impressed that they do indeed have two separate versions of the English subtitles - When playing in Japanese the subtitles correctly refer to Yuan as he 99% of the time (the one time they miss it I believe was during a cutscene in the Yellow Head building, and literally the next sentence was back to he). The dialogue that completely changed between the Japanese and English dub also got translated for the restored dub - specifically the suggestive "don't touch it" cat conversation on the cassette tape that was replaced in English with a news report about the arcade games in Kowloon. If you switch audio language to English, even in-game, the subtitles swap back over to that dub's version correctly.

There was a small bit of bad news out of TGS - The Japanese version (including the limited edition w/ soundtrack) removes language options. It will only have Japanese text with the Japanese dub, no English dub or subtitles. The PC version had Japanese text if you manually edited an INI file, but they patched that out in the most recent PC patch. Apparently the data is still there and can still be used on PC by forcibly patching the game. Actually, there's a code for the Japanese "Cyber Save Editor" PS4 cheat device to play the US / EU version of Shenmue I & II with Japanese text, which gives me hope that they're lazy and don't completely remove the English data from the Japanese version allowing a code for English on the Japanese version, but I guess we'll need to wait and see. Hopefully the fact that this is possible stays under their radar so that they don't have to make an effort to prevent it.


That's about all I can think of for now. The games are still have a handful of minor problems, but they're at least to where they probably should have been on Day 1. Japan's release on Day 1 should be pretty good, so lucky them.

#37 User is offline Covarr 

Posted 13 October 2018 - 01:37 AM

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This collection butchered audio even worse than it already was on the Dreamcast. Luckily, it can be restored.

#38 User is offline Caniad Bach 

Posted 15 October 2018 - 09:20 AM

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So it turns out D3T were working on a "Shenmue Kiwami" of sorts before it was cancelled late 2017, when the project was shifted to the Shenmue I and II collection that we ended up with. It makes much more sense now that we had heard whispers of a Shenmue remake/remaster for years, but what we ended up with was a seemingly rushed and buggy port.

#39 User is offline 360 

Posted 15 October 2018 - 12:37 PM

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Cross posting my thoughts from ShenmueDojo:

Well, my initial reaction was "This would have been amazing, go to hell Sega" but then I actually read the article and watched the video, and whilst this is a respectable update that looks quite decent, I'm seeing something lost in translation here, as in the original feel of "Shenmue", that intangible Yu Suzuki/AM2 immersive and beautiful magic that made us fall in love with the games in the first place, not being there in this prototype build. As though the essence of Shenmue is lost. So my reaction changed a little from being incredibly disappointed and sad to slightly relieved? The ports we have are the real Shenmue, entirely in-tact from 1999/2001 and as has been said this would have been torn to shreds by the mass market. Unfortunately in the modern games industry you either go hard or go home nowadays, so either Yakuza Kiwami/Resident Evil 2 with the ridiculous budget behind them or gamers will just complain and blast the product in to the stratosphere. The point I'm making is however sad this is in a "what could have been" way, without Sega Japan/AM2 and Yu Suzuki returning to the helm this project could have immensely backfired, and that being said I'm starting to understand the potential reasons for its cancellation.

Given the Shenmue HD that we did get sold so well, a feat likely to be repeated or exceeded by Shenmue 3, I'm sure we'll see more Shenmue down the line, whether it be full-on Kiwami style remakes or at the very least Shenmue 4 from YSNet. So this isn't the end of the road, nor is it the end of the world. I also really do feel for D3T now and the response they received, given this was the hidden truth to their ambitions and love for the games behind the scenes.

We still have Shenmue 3 and very probably 4, and something tells me this won't be the last we hear from this particular idea either, dependent on how Yu Suzuki's sequels do. The series still has a bright and positive future.
This post has been edited by 360: 15 October 2018 - 12:38 PM

#40 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 15 October 2018 - 01:21 PM

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It's an interesting idea but I think the greater goal was to have these games be more accessible, rather than spiced up for super mega HD 432945032K monitors. Sometimes these projects bring out a Star Wars Special Editions vibe, where you start preferring that they stopped after digitising and cleaning up the old film reels.

This is particularly the case when it's not the original development team. But then again Sonic CD 2011 exists and we seem quite okay with that. Dunno.


I think they made the right choice on this one. Shenmue is, at this stage, more of a historical piece, and I think the people likely to buy it want to see the game from 1999.

#41 User is offline sonicblur 

Posted 15 October 2018 - 02:40 PM

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View Post360, on 15 October 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

I'm seeing something lost in translation here, as in the original feel of "Shenmue", that intangible Yu Suzuki/AM2 immersive and beautiful magic that made us fall in love with the games in the first place, not being there in this prototype build. As though the essence of Shenmue is lost. So my reaction changed a little from being incredibly disappointed and sad to slightly relieved? The ports we have are the real Shenmue, entirely in-tact from 1999/2001 and as has been said this would have been torn to shreds by the mass market.

John did get confirmation from his source earlier today that they were going to offer a toggle between the updated and original graphics. The game was built on top of the original engine, hence the unchanged NPC behavior seen in the video.

While I agree it has a different feeling than the original, it wasn't done and we don't know how the finished product would have looked. Either way, I would have loved to try this version and it's sad to know they threw away almost 2 years worth of work. (For reference, a previous interview after the game's release said that d3t started working on the ports in late 2015. John's video today confirms that plans for the remastered version shown today were scrapped in late 2017, meaning the version we eventually got was in development for less than 9 months before release.)

There is still evidence of the work that they did for this in the finished remasters. For example, all of the branding censorship was handled as overlays over the original files. Shortly after release it was discovered that the original Timex, Hitachi, Sapporo, etc. textures that were replaced were actually still found in their original locations in the game data. The game had a set of replacement textures defined separately that are always loaded in place of the originals. (The Coca Cola branding is an exception, since the assets were based on the English releases where that branding didn't exist) I don't know to what extent the replacements go besides those textures, but they definitely made it possible to replace assets on the fly. It's used for the voice acting and subtitles too. I wonder if any of the updated lighting code is still present or not.

#42 User is offline Xilla 

Posted 16 October 2018 - 10:39 PM

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There's quite a few texture changes outside of the obvious (Timex etc). Mostly pictures of real people being replaced by the in-game NPCs and some other strange ones.

https://youtu.be/IqUpwxKnIaI

#43 User is offline Diablohead 

Posted 19 October 2018 - 07:08 AM

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View PostXilla, on 16 October 2018 - 10:39 PM, said:

There's quite a few texture changes outside of the obvious (Timex etc). Mostly pictures of real people being replaced by the in-game NPCs and some other strange ones.

https://youtu.be/IqUpwxKnIaI

I really don't like the contrast balance in the HD version, it makes the quality of texture shading look worse and stick out more.

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