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Hirokazu Yasuhara revealing all kinds of Sonic development stuff Including that Sonic 2 was going to have time travel

#31 User is offline steveswede 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 03:31 PM

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View PostJaredAFX, on 22 May 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

So from what I'm understanding, the Sonic 2 team also had an idea of time travel (which we knew previously but not to this degree), but instead of going to past/present/future versions of the same stage a la CD, the stages themselves were going to change depending on the era? That's very interesting. THAT'S something I'd like to see implemented (well) in a game today, it doesn't even have to be Sonic (I guess Chrono Trigger kind of already did it. Maybe that's why it's the best game ever :specialed:/>/> )


In all honesty the only indication that time travel is happening is through cutscenes. As cool as it sounds, Sonic CD is the better of the two as it's dynamic. Alpha Sonic 2 time travel is linear by the looks of it.

Also I hope we get some proper pictures of these for archiving.
This post has been edited by steveswede: 22 May 2017 - 03:37 PM

#32 User is offline Jassbec 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 03:36 PM

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This got me thinking, could it be that Sonic 2 SMS/GG was influenced by this state of Sonic 2's development?
There's a few connections that could be made such as Blue Lake = Aqua Lake, Rock World = Underground, the inclusion of Green Hill, etc.
Might be a bit of a stretch though.

Tpot from the Overture Team pointed out that if you overlap all of the locations on the same map they kind of fit the level order, even resembling the final order, which suggests to me they might have still used the map for reference to some extent even later in development. I'm gonna quote what he said.
Spoiler


"With this map, I took name tags from some of the zones from the 4 time periods and put them all on one map.
This shows that the order of the zones in the final game, still make sense.

Olympus is like an ancient rome city surrounded by water.
Aquatic ruins is like ancient rome ruins in the middle of a lake or river.
So it makes sense that Aquatic Ruins are the ruins of Olympus.

Now Mystic Cave isn't on these maps, and has no similar zones.
But it was added closer to the end of the development, way after these maps would have been made.
But I have many reasons why Mystic Cave would be the thick forest area around Warp Point (Which is clearly hidden palace).
1. Mystic Cave's 2P music was intended for Hidden Palace
2. In the Sonic 2 Manual it refers to Mystic Cave as a forest
3. The boss of Mystic Cave is a drill, that same Sonic 2 Manual says that Eggman is "digging for Chaos Emeralds"
4. The Taxman remake of Sonic 2 has Hidden Palace accessible from Mystic Cave
5. Mystic Cave has kind of a "supernatural" theme, it's like a weird mystical underground forest"


Fascinating stuff regardless though, for real.
This post has been edited by Jassbec: 22 May 2017 - 03:40 PM

#33 User is offline Knucklez 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 03:44 PM

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View PostRalakimus, on 22 May 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

Also, the map sketches look pretty similar to the overworld map in 8 bit Sonic 1:
Posted Image

So from what we've known from the Protos and now what we see with these sketches, correct me if I'm wrong but could they have intended to bring back GHZ? Cause it seems an awful lot like it considering how long they kept it around during development. And the similarities to the 8-bit S1 map are pretty close.

Wouldn't that mean Sonic 2 would've been set on South Island again, but rather in other areas on another side of it (also across time)? It's obviously been Westside Island since release but still, just a thought.

#34 User is offline Montblanc 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 03:45 PM

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View PostDigitalDuck, on 22 May 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

View PostMontblanc, on 22 May 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Looking at it again looks like Olympus could be Aquatic Ruin Zone, the past of Chemical Plant Zone. Makes some sense with all that water to release waste. Perhaps the name "Neo" Green Hill Zone was a leftover of the scrapped time travel idea.


I don't think Olympus is Aquatic Ruin precisely because of its position in the data - Aquatic Ruin seems to have been tacked on the end of the list (second to last, before Sky Chase), and certainly isn't where the other zones in its era would be, so it probably postdates this concept (although you're right that the Neo Green Hill Zone would suggest that the time travel concept was still in play).


But it's not in the "bad future" map, and it wouldn't make too much sense when the rest of the Zones around are based in technology and cities, while ARZ has clean water and lots of vegetation. Wait, the maps mention a lake, and Olympus is surrounded by water.

By the way... What about Winter Zone?

#35 User is offline baba944 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 03:58 PM

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Now I don't think this has confirmed yet, but how were we able to time-travel? Via Chaos Emeralds? Remember Naka said that if you accumulated all seven emeralds you'll be teleported to HPZ. Was that also how to go back in time?

#36 User is offline DigitalDuck 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 04:01 PM

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View PostMontblanc, on 22 May 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

But it's not in the "bad future" map, and it wouldn't make too much sense when the rest of the Zones around are based in technology and cities, while ARZ has clean water and lots of vegetation. Wait, the maps mention a lake, and Olympus is surrounded by water.


I don't see how that follows on from what I said at all.

I never said Aquatic Ruin was on the future map. I said I don't think any of the levels shown are Aquatic Ruin, with it being something that was thought up after these concepts were drawn (e.g. maybe they had the idea that after defeating Eggman in Genocide City, you destroy his time machine and the world reverts to a good future, Neo Green Hill).

Given that the rest of the zones work roughly in order, it doesn't make sense that Olympus was put in after all the others. It also wouldn't make sense to call a zone that's in an earlier time period and a different place than Green Hill Zone, "Neo Green Hill Zone".

#37 User is offline Master Emerald 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 04:26 PM

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Oh MY GOD. So traveling to hidden palace would be the way he time travelled.

He touched the emerald, and a cutscene followed..

Geez!

#38 User is offline Montblanc 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 04:36 PM

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View PostDigitalDuck, on 22 May 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

View PostMontblanc, on 22 May 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

But it's not in the "bad future" map, and it wouldn't make too much sense when the rest of the Zones around are based in technology and cities, while ARZ has clean water and lots of vegetation. Wait, the maps mention a lake, and Olympus is surrounded by water.


I don't see how that follows on from what I said at all.

I never said Aquatic Ruin was on the future map. I said I don't think any of the levels shown are Aquatic Ruin, with it being something that was thought up after these concepts were drawn (e.g. maybe they had the idea that after defeating Eggman in Genocide City, you destroy his time machine and the world reverts to a good future, Neo Green Hill).

Given that the rest of the zones work roughly in order, it doesn't make sense that Olympus was put in after all the others. It also wouldn't make sense to call a zone that's in an earlier time period and a different place than Green Hill Zone, "Neo Green Hill Zone".


Sorry, I misread what you wrote about the level order and mixed it up with the list Black Squirrel posted before where Neo Green Hill (0F) should be in the bad future timeline.
This post has been edited by Montblanc: 22 May 2017 - 04:38 PM

#39 User is offline High Fidelity 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 04:38 PM

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View PostDigitalDuck, on 22 May 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

View PostBlack Squirrel, on 22 May 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

Here's two questions:

- Where is mystic cave?


Likely a concept invented later, like Sky Chase/Wing Fortress (also not in concept art).

View PostBlack Squirrel, on 22 May 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

- What are the chances of "blue lake" becoming the Never Lake in Sonic CD?


I'd argue it's more likely Blue Lake became Azure Lake, and Dust Hill became Desert Palace. It would surprise me if they didn't reuse the scrapped levels in some form.


Yeah, that makes sense. Redrawn to fit S3's art style.

Sega should really do a dump of all Sonic proto artwork, that would be a treasure trove of wonder

#40 User is offline GeneHF 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 05:24 PM

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View PostHigh Fidelity, on 22 May 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

Sega should really do a dump of all Sonic proto artwork, that would be a treasure trove of wonder

:)

#41 User is offline Sparks 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 05:43 PM

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View PostGeneHF, on 22 May 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

View PostHigh Fidelity, on 22 May 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

Sega should really do a dump of all Sonic proto artwork, that would be a treasure trove of wonder

:)/>
it better not have random sprites stretching a whole page. :colbert:

#42 User is offline High Fidelity 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:11 PM

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View PostGeneHF, on 22 May 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

View PostHigh Fidelity, on 22 May 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

Sega should really do a dump of all Sonic proto artwork, that would be a treasure trove of wonder

:)


Tease! It would be an awesome way to promote Mania without having to spoil any more of the game

#43 User is offline Neo 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:14 PM

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View PostBlack Squirrel, on 22 May 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

- Where is mystic cave?

Mystic Cave is Dust Hill. Oil Ocean and Mystic Cave are 0A and 0B in the final, and "Oil" is followed by "Dust" in the timeline picture.

The Simon Wai proto told us so nearly twenty years ago and no one listened.

#44 User is offline synchronizer 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:25 PM

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This is all so incredible.

... if I were ever to decide to make a Sonic fangame I think this would be it...

#45 User is offline Montblanc 

Posted 22 May 2017 - 07:08 PM

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But Dust Hill takes place in Green Hill Zone bad present area, Mystic Cave Zone doesn't match the style of the level like Hill Top Zone does as its past counterpart.

If it wasn't sand, I can't imagine what else would be that "dust" or how GHZ could have been with that name after being affected by Eggman actions in the past. Sonic Forces is going to have a semi-desertified GHZ now that I think about it.

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