[Sik]

Um, from what I understand, the whole eBay thing originally was to show that the broken keyboard was real, then he added some stuff, it worked, then he did it a second time with new material. So...

PS: MSN told me to check an e-mail and in the way it made Opera go forward, WTF O_O

[OSM]

Sammybeany, on Feb 19 2009, 03:08 AM, said:

Only read a bit. Absolute shit.

It's a shame that nobody was even vaguely interested in maintaing the integrity of the original vision and style of the series.

Yea, to be honest I didn't like this either. I can really get a better sense how different Sonic was viewed regionally now because of things like this though. While I don't think that cluttering up the origin of a character is initially what "killed" the franchise, it definitely provided quite a lot of muck between SoA and SoJ. Even though I like ass face Sonic because I grew up with him, it does seem awfully unfair what they did to the franchise just so it would help appeal to everyone. When you think about it, they lost a lot of potential growth the franchise could have had if they gave everyone the same vision the franchise was intended for. It would have saved us all the grief of the millions of splits in the fan base itself!

Basically, it seems to me that no matter how many "reboots" SEGA does to salvage the franchise, there is always going to be some imperfections people view in it because of how much people's views differentiate. Some people see Sonic as a simple platformer about speed and level progression, while others view it for the characters and hoping to get a "SatAM" feel from the games. It goes on and on.

That doesn't mean gimmicks and ridiculous over dramatic "epic" plots are the best solution either though, however.

I think what Unleashed offered was a good step in the right direction because it was what SEGA wanted to do. It was keeping the things people liked about Sonic, and adding in some new things as well. It had it's imperfections but it was overall a smart decision. The cartoony atmosphere, the worlds twisting into stages for Sonic to run along, and yes, ridiculous elements like the Werehog. Hopefully that's the last gimmick we see in hopes to "lengthen" the games, but I doubt it. I hope to see them continue this formula and "vision" in future Sonic games, maybe then the franchise will get the salvation it's been looking for this whole time.

This post has been edited by OSM: 23 February 2009 - 07:58 AM

[Shibunoa]

Sik, on Feb 23 2009, 01:09 PM, said:

Um, from what I understand, the whole eBay thing originally was to show that the broken keyboard was real, then he added some stuff, it worked, then he did it a second time with new material. So...

PS: MSN told me to check an e-mail and in the way it made Opera go forward, WTF O_O

So...? It's still using us, but with a smart tactic.
He just did that to make people not notice that.

I mean, if he really wanted to give us those things, he would have given us them since the beginning, don't you think?

Anyway, OSM, SEGA like with every video game company, puts profits first, then other things.
Nothing can be liked by everyone in this world, but they strive to make it likable to around a 70% of that "everyone".
You wouldn't believe me, but if they did classic Sonic, like for example Sonic 1 and CD, many less people would buy it, and
it will likely be derided for its backwards graphics.
They do market researches before ever putting something out of their door.
Maybe a 30-35% percent will EVEN love it, but to SEGA 70% is much more wanted.
In the long term, the former situation (30-35% but love it) would be much better than the latter (70% but only like it), but companies usually only care about short term gains, everyone minds about his own business and wants money.
I don't really like this way of thinking (which sadly is very common), because I don't think doing something is done just to get money, and you can immediately "shoot the flag down".
But it's how SEGA is ran and you can't do anything.

And I find it absurd that some people say that SEGA actually cared about Sonic.
But, actually, they really did, but it was Sonic's monetary profits.
Maybe some developers really cared about it, but I don't think higher positions did, nor do I think they had many clues about Sonic and such.
Many of them do nothing and know nothing as well, yet get higher paychecks.

This post has been edited by Shibunoa: 23 February 2009 - 08:23 AM

[OSM]

I'm very much aware that business is business, but I'm sure even at this point in time where they are now they would handle one of their best IP's with much more care and consideration. It will only help them go the extra mile stay as a competitive developer and keep them afloat, would it not?

From what I understand and have seen, most people see bad Sonic=bad SEGA initially right off the bat.

I don't think a back to basics approach would be wise either, since they came to a pretty good "starting point" with the daytime stages in Unleashed in my opinion, I would love to see how they build upon that. I'd just like to see more platforming then running next time, but at least they got the multiple routes angle down, and the levels weren't generic in the least bit.

This post has been edited by OSM: 23 February 2009 - 08:31 AM

[DeanSatan]

Sik, on Feb 23 2009, 07:09 AM, said:

Um, from what I understand, the whole eBay thing originally was to show that the broken keyboard was real, then he added some stuff, it worked, then he did it a second time with new material. So...

e bay thing#1 = selling my 2nd to last personal comic containing mention in credits + keyboard for 70.00
to prove it was "real"... not much thought was put to the public nature outside of the retro community.

e bay thing#2 = total failure with 0 bids then an offer was made.

so what am I doing again? the information got to a) the person who wanted it and b) the retro community. anything that hits the public "from me" isnt "coming from me" as its in anothers hands at this point. this information is 20 years old and would have likely been lost to the ages. who is complaining and whats the complaint?

what else?...

also forgotten is the fact that much of the original US mythos was based on:

what the US was exposed to at the time not what was created by the artist or mascots creator.

looking at little more than a sprite on a screen assumptions were drawn. there simply wasnt much fiction at that time. there is also the issue of licensing and merchandising rights. the game rights to a character are different than the comicbook rights are different than the music rights. . . the happymeal rights. each with their own unique stories based on the original premise. the retro community and die hard fans have the luxury of knowing facts outside of the scope of average consumers, backstory, differences in regions, versions, etc...

the sonic drama is like two grandparents trying to spoil a grandchild, soa/soj each having their own idea of its personality and claiming their influence.



also,
re: "our" SOR docs...?!

our?


also - if you didnt like how this went down..you'll really hate the next one.

This post has been edited by DeanSatan: 23 February 2009 - 12:55 PM

[Sik]

DeanSatan, on Feb 23 2009, 03:30 PM, said:

e bay thing#2 = total failure with 0 bids then an offer was made.

Despite the Streets of Rage material? O_O

Which reminds me, where is our SoR material? >=|

[Shibunoa]

Sorry, but I still don't buy your argument, Dean.
If you really wanted to give us stuff, you would scan it, not invite us to make offers in your actions about them.
I hope this is not another excuse I see from people to make money...

especially when there are people who release things themselves, at no cost, and make themselves a debt.
And they get nothing when they ask for donations, while they should.

[Tweaker]

Shibunoa, on Feb 23 2009, 01:51 PM, said:

Sorry, but I still don't buy your argument, Dean.
If you really wanted to give us stuff, you would scan it, not invite us to make offers in your actions about them.

You're an idiot. He did give us stuff—the comic scans, the information, the insight, as well as other things. At the same time, Dean is absolutely entitled to do whatever the hell he wants with his property. Why the hell do you think you're entitled to it? Get your head out of your ass.

He wanted to give us stuff, and he did. Better yet, he gave interested parties an opportunity to own these collectors items. Said people—specific to this community, as intended—gladly decided to share those materials with us. Instead of being grateful to both parties, though, you decided to be grateful to neither of them. Good job!

[WiteoutKing]

Sorry, Tweaker, but he could have just as easily scanned them then sold them. No one's EXPECTING him to just hand over anything, obviously, but having people buy it off him first (when there was also a risk of it going to an unknown third party) is just cause for concern.

Chill out.

[Tweaker]

WiteoutKing, on Feb 23 2009, 08:29 PM, said:

having people buy it off him first (when there was also a risk of it going to an unknown third party) is just cause for concern.

Except it's not, for the reasons stated above.

If Dean's intention was not to contribute to this community, then he would not have done so; the fact of the matter, though, is that he did. Instead of trying to make a gigantic conspiracy out of the fact that he decided to make a fun little bid out of it on the side, maybe you should actually show a shred of appreciation. Unless that's too much to ask, anyway.

I'm not going to read any more of this malicious intent crap. That's not what this topic is about, and it's not going to be what it's about—end of.

[DeanSatan]

... the fact there is a conversation about it hints at the fact it is inclusive and not exclusive. if you have been paying attention I've telegraphed every move... and asked for suggestions along the way. I guess im damned if I do and damned if I don't. this is still in the "public" area, not in members area or hidden so it should be transparent. if items did go to an "outsider" they would have been donated in a short time anyhow. keep looking that gift horse in the mouth. maybe its a language internet barrier and it doesnt sound as shitty as it reads?

+ me scanning and self promoting takes the fun out of it - I don't care about it much - but theres a bustling community that does care a bit... and is a suitable archive for this type of thing.

[Dr. Mecha]

Sammybeany, on Feb 19 2009, 02:08 AM, said:

Only read a bit. Absolute shit.

It's a shame that nobody was even vaguely interested in maintaing the integrity of the original vision and style of the series. It's no wonder the entire franchise has been mercilessly run into the ground and destroyed. They were destroying it from day one, really.

Sure the story is shit, but that's because they over complicated the orgin of Sonic. However, when it comes to video game characters, it turns out that we don't give a fuck. Although the story of how Sonic was born and raised in a poor town of Nebraska does appeal to me, but that's because I'm part of the American audience that they aimed at.

[drx]

Thanks to both of you (Dean and Nemesis).

And even if it was absolute horseshit, you should be kinda grateful to Nemesis that he took the risk.

[RedStripedShoes]

I do like the idea of Sonic having a "real" name the same way Tails does.

Sonny "Sonic" Hedgehog
Miles "Tails" Prower

Otherwise, total shit. I had heard the Ovi Kintobor story before, so that didn't phase me. Now the idea of Sonic living like an actual hedgehog in the great plains of America... that I found strange, twisted, and mind-numbingly stupid.

[El Gran Gordo]

I find it kind of sad that the American writers went out of their way to describe Robotnik as a mean, nasty fellow with "no redeeming qualities whatsoever", as I like my Eggman with character depth. Still, this was an incredibly interesting find.