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Sonic Megamix

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Stealth, Jan 27, 2012.

  1. Willie

    Willie

    Each day the world turns Laugh 'til it all burns Member
    Ah, so I can't play Sonic 1 though the hack anymore? I enjoyed playing the game with the homing attack and spindash. <_< Oh well.
     
  2. Vangar

    Vangar

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    Nothing saying you can't keep the old version around for this =)
     
  3. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Er, OK, I might end up looking stupid here! I had totally forgotten or never even knew (delete as appropriate) that you could do that. I shan't presume to speak for Team Megamix on whether or not you'll be able to in v5.

    Because of said brainfart, I was only referring to the music from the original game, which will take up a negligible amount of space if it is still included; so, even without it, there isn't space for much more music on the Megamix CD.
     
  4. Sik

    Sik

    Sik is pronounced as "seek", not as "sick". Tech Member
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    being an asshole =P
    And saying they're here to do the easiest thing possible would be stupid, given that they're making a Sega CD hack of a game that was never meant to be even remotely like this, when they could just make a fangame which is much easier to maintain and won't have any of the hardware limitations =P

    In any case as mentioned before the CD tracks would simply take up too much space...

    Sonic CD had only three variants of each round as CD audio (past music was stored as PCM), and those tracks didn't even loop at all. Not even a single loop. They're pretty short. So it came with a huge downside.
     
  5. Willie

    Willie

    Each day the world turns Laugh 'til it all burns Member
    True, but it sucks that the last boss just dies after one hit. I wish it was the standard 8 hits for that version of Megamix.
     
  6. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Was that even intentional? I think I remember thinking before that it might just have been due to the game being a WIP and the 1-hit-then-second-battle-with-8-hits code being applied to all bosses, even those for whom no second phase was coded.
     
  7. Puto

    Puto

    Shin'ichi Kudō, detective. Tech Member
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    Portugal, Oeiras
    Part of Team Megamix, but haven't done any actual work in ages.
    Yeah, that was just because it was a WIP. And it wasn't because of that, it was because we'd been testing some stuff in the ending, and having to beat the boss every time got tiresome really quick.
     
  8. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Thanks for the quick reply and the information! Lucky guess for me – well, half. :D
     
  9. Willie

    Willie

    Each day the world turns Laugh 'til it all burns Member
    So that's why that boss only took one hit to beat? >_> I know absolutely nothing about rom hacking, but that would be awesome if someone modified that rom hack to make it where the last boss takes 8 hits.
     
  10. Stealth

    Stealth

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    Sonic Mania, HCGE, Sonic Megamix, SonED2, [...]
    Puto is part of Team Megamix :P

    This actually reminds me of the assumption that someone who has a big/fancy house/car/etc "has a lot of money", which doesn't make a lot of sense when you have to consider how they actually obtained whatever it is they have; logically it's only readily-apparent that they "had a lot of money". In a similar way, while we're not restricted by the same kind of scheduling as a commercial project, we still don't have an infinite amount of resources like time

    That's not to say that that's the only factor determining how Megamix turns out in the end. You are right in that there are other ways we could've handled the game, and one of the reasons we chose to stick to this method was not to back down from a challenge. Aside from the fact that it would be more time-consuming to try and set up a PCM solution for the music, though, there was also the point made that it wouldn't produce the same sound. CD audio allows the music to be pre-rendered with better effects, and to be played back at a higher rate. On top of that, any other method would require the use of more RAM for storing the song or buffering a stream, which at the moment is something we need to avoid

    That explains it almost perfectly. Our songs do contain loops so they don't cut out and restart as frequently during gameplay, which makes each one take up much more space
     
  11. Chilly Willy

    Chilly Willy

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    Doom 32X
    The PCM chip on the SCD is perfect for tracker music, like MOD/XM/IT/S3M... you have eight channels that can be independently set to change pitch, volume, and pan. The only real limitation is sample space - you only have 64KB of wave memory. That's a bit low for instruments on a lot of tracker music, but there's also a lot that would work fine with that amount, too. Existing tracker sequencers would work fine for editing the music... ones like Milky Tracker, or even the old ProTracker software. Just keep the channels to no more than eight active instruments at any one time, and keep the total instrument size for the score to 64KB and you have music that can easily be played on the SCD.
     
  12. Sik

    Sik

    Sik is pronounced as "seek", not as "sick". Tech Member
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    being an asshole =P
    Don't forget that with a bit of extra coding you can make volume and panning envelopes, too, making longer instruments with short samples (heck, this is pretty much how FM instruments work, a short waveform affected by an envelope).
     
  13. Chilly Willy

    Chilly Willy

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    Doom 32X
    I haven't forgotten. With certain types of instruments in particular, a volume envelope can reduce the entire instrument down to a few hundred bytes instead of several thousand. When I was making looped instruments for Doom on the Amiga years back, I noticed that on a bunch of instruments, like plucked guitars, pianos, and saxophones. The waveform had one repeating segment that merely varied in amplitude over time.

    Some instruments do NOT reduce well that way - synth pads don't, and percussion don't either.

    I'd really love to put together a set of instruments for the SCD PCM. It would help to have some kind of editor that could help find the repeating segment, and derive the volume envelope for the instrument.
     
  14. Ok, then, could we at least get a version where Labyrinth Zone doesn't have those glitchy tiles on real hardware, then? I mean, if it's gonna be removed from the final, it'd be pretty bummertastic if the only build available where this was in had bugged stuff there. Especially considering how Tweaker waved his e-cock at me over having access to versions where the bugs were ironed out that were not available to the public.
     
  15. Stealth

    Stealth

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    Sonic Mania, HCGE, Sonic Megamix, SonED2, [...]
    I don't recall any of us saying that it was going to be removed. Also, we all totally owe you for something an individual did without our involvement or knowledge, right?
     
  16. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Yeah, that was me being dumb and then others (being perhaps dumber by) not reading the subsequent discussion including my explanation and retraction.
     
  17. TechWizard86

    TechWizard86

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    I'm thrilled that Megamix has not been forgotten. I'm using the unstable build which doesn't go far after Misty Maze Zone Act 4's start. This is understandable because it was made clear the hack was unfinished.
     
  18. Metal Knuckles

    Metal Knuckles

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    Shadow Alpha, an awesome hack of Sonic 1
    Every time this thread gets bumped for someone to express their thanks, I get all excited and than depressed. =(
     
  19. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    That's why this thread alone should be locked after a few months of inactivity, and only unlocked after someone in charge of the project decides to post something.
     
  20. Metal Knuckles

    Metal Knuckles

    HAVE SOME FUN WITH MIKU Member
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    Shadow Alpha, an awesome hack of Sonic 1
    I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with expressing thanks to Team Megamix, that should be allowed. I'm just pissing and moaning about the side consequences.