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Sonic 1 prototype images Both topics now merged together

#391 User is offline 87th 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 10:04 AM

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View PostMcAleeCh, on 06 November 2014 - 02:39 AM, said:

As well as the history of the MD, hardware plans etc, does the "Collected Works" book contain concept designs and production materials of this sort from some of the other games featured? If so I definitely need to pick this up. = )

There's even more substantial Gunstar Heroes and Streets of Rage production material exposés, including reproduced game plan documents from when they were pitched as "Lunatic Gunstar" and "D-SWAT". There's also a load of concept artwork and stuff from Eternal Champions, Toejam & Earl, Vectorman, Comix Zone and Monster World IV, to name a few. Highly recommended if you're curious about early concepts and industry secrets from the era.

#392 User is offline SpeedStarTMQ 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 12:37 PM

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Just a snippet for you all from the book. In an interview with Art Director Kazuyuki Hoshino he was asked:

"Is there any truth about a level from Sonic CD - known as R2 - being cut from the final game?".

The response is:

"I have heard that there are rumours about this on the internet. However, it is probably too dangerous to talk about it here. I would prefer not to comment [Laughs]".

Curious...

#393 User is offline Clownacy 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 01:11 PM

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FFS, I wish the secrecy bullshit would end. We know the answer already.

#394 User is offline LordOfSquad 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 01:35 PM

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He was probably half joking, half unsure about what he can and can't talk about.

#395 User is offline Andrew75 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 01:43 PM

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View PostSpinksy, on 06 November 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

I've ordered the book :-)

Me too ! It looks very interesting !


View PostSpeedStarTMQ, on 06 November 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

Just a snippet for you all from the book. In an interview with Art Director Kazuyuki Hoshino he was asked:

"Is there any truth about a level from Sonic CD - known as R2 - being cut from the final game?".

The response is:

"I have heard that there are rumours about this on the internet. However, it is probably too dangerous to talk about it here. I would prefer not to comment [Laughs]".

Curious...

I've asked Naoto Ohshima the same thing threw a chat and got a similar response some years back.
This post has been edited by Andrew75: 06 November 2014 - 01:46 PM

#396 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 08:05 PM

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R2 was Michael Jackson. =P

#397 User is offline Sodaholic 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 08:16 PM

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I never bought for a second that S1 was meant to be as empty as it was. Deadlines must have played a large role, but I haven't read the book so I'm just making assumptions. I really like a lot of this cut content, and the 8-bit game does feel like the other missing half. It just makes it all feel more coherent, a much more well rounded vision for the early Sonic universe.

On another note, am I the only one that prefers the direction Sonic 2 was taking around the Wai build? I like the music a little better for some reason, and the art style was much closer to 1's. I always thought Sonic 2's final art direction looked a little too "harsh" and narrow, if that makes any sense. Specifically with Sonic's sprites, I just don't like his S2 final set. His 1/CD set looked more expressive and was much more polished (I cannot believe the level of sloppiness in 2's art). Like the first game, the final build feels empty. It would have felt much more well rounded had they kept Dust Hill and some of the other stuff.

#398 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 09:21 PM

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While all this cut content is really cool, I have to admit that I like Sonic 1 just as it is. Sonic 1 is my 2nd favorite game in the series, after Sonic CD. I started with Sonic 1, getting every game in the series in order as they released, and I absolutely adored Sonic 1. I thought Sonic 2 was a bit of a letdown compared to the original when I got it, only for the best game in the series to arrive the following year.

#399 User is offline Toasty 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 11:52 PM

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So many cool things to read in this thread! I miss the days when Sonic 2 beta speculation was the main thing to debate. It's great that drx found the "Nick Arcade" proto (we were never 100% it was from Nick arcade and from what drx said earlier about Sega getting their prototypes back it might not have been from Nick Arcade afterall.) The only bad thing about finding it was it answered the majority of our questions and we didn't have anything to talk about relating to the prototypes because Sonic 1's history was pretty scarce.

I'm someone who believes most cut content was cut for the good of the game and its future. I'm happy they cut the band stuff because I doubt Sonic would have done as well as it did (it also gives us stuff to talk about.) The ball in the Nick Arade pilot was interesting but was obviously removed because it served little purpose and was potentially a test object. People are always bitching about how the Sonic series has so many lame and unnecessary characters, imagine if the series STARTED OUT that way. Sega came up with the winning formula which was Sonic 1 and I'll never believe otherwise. It's a good thing they had the winning formula from the start or the series would have just fell over and died if we started out with a game like Sonic Adventure (ick.)

The only thing I was ever sad about was Hidden Palace zone, which had beautiful art but that's all it ever really had going for it. HPZ fell victim to time constraints, while that was never confirmed, that's what all the evidence pointz to. The rest of the prototype Sonic 2 things that were removed were either unnecessary (Wood zone) or were improved upon (Casino Night.) There were also things that supposedly exist but we'll never see (Dust hill zone, cyber city.)

But yeah....crossing mg fingers that a Sonic 1 prototype is discovered and is early enough to be interesting. I'd love to see the Wayne's world footage playable since I find the UFOs to be so....random.
This post has been edited by Toasty: 06 November 2014 - 11:53 PM

#400 User is offline SpeedStarTMQ 

Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:10 AM

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View PostToasty, on 06 November 2014 - 11:52 PM, said:

HPZ fell victim to time constraints, while that was never confirmed, that's what all the evidence pointz to. The rest of the prototype Sonic 2 things that were removed were either unnecessary (Wood zone) or were improved upon (Casino Night.) There were also things that supposedly exist but we'll never see (Dust hill zone, cyber city.)


I thought it was already confirmed in an existing interview that Hidden Palace was cut due to time constraints. If not though, then this'll be of interest to you:

"It [The Hidden Palace] had to be removed in the end due to time and capacity restraints, which was a shame, but all games experience these kind of cuts during development." - Yuji Naka, SEGA Mega Drive/Genesis: Collected Works.

Also interesting is that in the book's midsection of sprite art and background graphics, one of the chosen showpieces for Sonic 2 is... Hidden Palace! They show off a section of it's foreground and background art, which is odd as you obviously never see that in the final game.
This post has been edited by SpeedStarTMQ: 07 November 2014 - 04:10 AM

#401 User is offline Machenstein 

Posted 07 November 2014 - 09:13 AM

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View PostToasty, on 06 November 2014 - 11:52 PM, said:

People are always bitching about how the Sonic series has so many lame and unnecessary characters, imagine if the series STARTED OUT that way.

We didn't start bitching about the characters until we were forced to play as them in Sonic Adventure. Each of them had their own gameplay style and they just weren't as fun as Sonic's. The voice acting and dialogue for the characters didn't help either. The band members, on the other hand, most likely wouldn't have been playable, and any voice acting for them would be prevented by the Mega Drive's sound limitations.

Now I'm not arguing in favor of the band members. I can see why Sega felt they were extraneous to the goal of the overall project. They wouldn't have contributed to the gameplay but instead simply serve as plot devices. I just feel the band members wouldn't have had that much of an impact on Sonic's success even if they were included in the game. Sonic 1 would feel a little more alive if Sega had included more characters, but at the same time, maybe they didn't need the band members for that. Perhaps Tails could've been there from the beginning, or Eggman could've had henchmen to serve as Act 1 or Act 2 bosses. As long as they contribute to the gameplay in a positive way, I suppose.

#402 User is offline Sparks 

Posted 15 November 2014 - 07:44 PM

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View Postashthedragon, on 01 November 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

I've uploaded to Youtube just the Sonic footage from that Nick Arcade pilot, just in case anyone wants to watch it without having to rewind through the whole episode




View PostICEknight, on 28 October 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

Hey guys, look at the timer and then listen to the music. Notice anything odd?

Wait a second...

This post has been edited by Sparks: 15 November 2014 - 07:45 PM

#403 User is offline Meat Miracle 

Posted 15 November 2014 - 08:41 PM

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View Post87th, on 06 November 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

View PostMcAleeCh, on 06 November 2014 - 02:39 AM, said:

As well as the history of the MD, hardware plans etc, does the "Collected Works" book contain concept designs and production materials of this sort from some of the other games featured? If so I definitely need to pick this up. = )

There's even more substantial Gunstar Heroes and Streets of Rage production material exposés, including reproduced game plan documents from when they were pitched as "Lunatic Gunstar" and "D-SWAT". There's also a load of concept artwork and stuff from Eternal Champions, Toejam & Earl, Vectorman, Comix Zone and Monster World IV, to name a few. Highly recommended if you're curious about early concepts and industry secrets from the era.

The Monster World, Phantasy Star, and Gunstar Heroes galleries were all made available before on the Sega Ages 2500 releases on playstation2. We even have a full rips of those converted to BMP.

The book was good for the interviews and the few design documents and prototype hardware shots (there were like... 6 of each?), as well as finally clearing up why the 32x was such a failure. But other galleries were incomplete and it wasted a shit load of space in useless crap like sprite sheets.

It felt like a first volume from a series.

#404 User is offline kazblox 

Posted 29 November 2014 - 03:04 PM

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Update: I and TheStoneBanana found 2 more alternate scans of the Marble Zone tile concept art and MathUser uploaded them to the Game Development page.

http://info.sonicret...7/MZ-Tiles2.png

http://info.sonicret...4/MZ-Tiles3.jpg

Both of them are flipped, however.

#405 User is offline Spinksy 

Posted 29 November 2014 - 08:53 PM

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I too started with Sonic 1 on my megadrive at my dads house.

The 'emptiness' or as I would call it 'simplicity' of the game was one of the major things that made me so interested in it. Sonic 1 always seems so perfect as it is/was.
This post has been edited by Spinksy: 30 November 2014 - 08:17 PM

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