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Sonic 1 prototype images Both topics now merged together

#376 User is offline MKAmeX 

Posted 05 November 2014 - 10:16 PM

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Posted Image

Hmm...

#377 User is offline Machenstein 

Posted 05 November 2014 - 10:36 PM

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View PostDelta, on 05 November 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

I'd love to see these ideas in a ROM hack. :P Or perhaps Sonic Overture.

I was just gonna mention Sonic Overture. To be honest, I love all of these scrapped Sonic 1 concepts. I kinda wish Sonic 1 would be remade so they can be used, but I guess that's what Sonic Overture is for.

I have to agree with Azukara. Sonic 1 feels empty compared to the Sonic we would eventually get with the introduction of Tails, the Death Egg, Knuckles, Metal Sonic, Amy, Little Planet, Angel Island, and everything else Sega of Japan introduced to Sonic "lore" during the classic era. That's not to mention Sega of America's concepts such as Mobius and the Freedom Fighters. The more I see these scrapped Sonic 1 concepts, the more I'm convinced the "blank slate" quality Sonic 1 had wasn't deliberate. It's obvious Ohshima had a distinct vision for the series that had to be compromised either due to time constraints or Sega of America's own vision for the series which resulted in things such as SatAM.
This post has been edited by Machenstein: 05 November 2014 - 10:37 PM

#378 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 05 November 2014 - 11:55 PM

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View PostAzukara, on 05 November 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

Well, I guess I'll go ahead and share all of these, since they're out there and there's basically no way I could let Sonic Retro go without seeing this.

(Spoilered for size.)

Intro and title screen:
Spoiler


Original continue / game over screens, end of stage bonus, wrecking ball boss / animal capsule concepts, and stage clear scenarios:
Spoiler


Final boss and ending scenarios:
Spoiler


I've always loved Sonic 1 but at the same time always found that it had this sort of "empty" quality I couldn't properly describe. Like there was something missing despite it feeling like a complete game. It really becomes apparent when you compare how solid 2, 3K and CD are compared to the first title, but I always assumed it was because they were sequels and generally just did a better job. Now that we're seeing all these shots of the band being a part of the original game, its coming together like pieces to a long lost puzzle.

Its hard to imagine what Sonic would've been like if this is how it would've been, though. Would it even have been as successful? Would the sequels even have turned out the way they did, if at all? Looking at this is like looking at some alternate reality where Sonic became a similar, yet completely different thing.

Can't wait to see some transcripts of Naka, Oshima and Yasuhara's interviews. This stuff is so dang good.


Just wanted to point out again how crazy similar the game gear/master system ending is to this story board ending. Even the boss is very similar.

#379 User is offline Falk 

Posted 05 November 2014 - 11:56 PM

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The more of this is out on the open the more I get the sense that the major struggle of ownership and design between multiple entities predated even the first game. :(

#380 User is offline Machenstein 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 12:31 AM

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View PostFalk, on 05 November 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

The more of this is out on the open the more I get the sense that the major struggle of ownership and design between multiple entities predated even the first game. :(/>

Honestly, I feel that had Sega established Sonic's band as the cast of characters, there wouldn't be all of these separate continuities with different characters. AoSTH, SatAM, the Archie comics, the Fleetway comics, Underground, Boom, they probably wouldn't even exist. Even the Japanese continuity feels disconnected between the classic games, the Adventure era games, and the "Orbot era" (Unleashed to Lost World) games. That's not to mention the OVA and the various mangas.

#381 User is offline SpeedStarTMQ 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 01:56 AM

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Guys, I can't stress how important it is you read the book. It's very clear that how the game turned out was because SEGA of America's involvement. They saw the concept, asked for it to be changed to omit what was weird/crazy about it to appeal to all audiences. They axed Sonic's girlfriend with the"great cleavage", and changed some aspects of his design, as in Japan he was very serious looking, though in the game I always felt that remained.

Sonic's band members would have stayed as part of the soundtest regardless of their ommission from the gameplay itself, but due to time constraints that was axed and what came of it was the SEGA logo screen you see today, which is infinitely famous.

Notice that Sonic was meant to have his jumping celebration pose, and it even mentions how long this would have lasted.

If the game had not been changed we might not all be here today as Sonic may not have been that popular if SoA hadn't stepped in.

Also, it is pretty clear Ancient didn't just do their own thing, and had some set earlier ideas about what Sonic was before they were left to their devices. They may even have had some of these concepts to use as reference, as there's some great similarities.

Glad now that I bought a copy of the SMS game as it's important to the history of the game we all know and love.
This post has been edited by SpeedStarTMQ: 06 November 2014 - 02:05 AM

#382 User is offline McAleeCh 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 02:39 AM

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This stuff is incredible! You can definitely see how some elements of the original Final Boss concept survive in the SMS version of the game - the enclosed room, being shot at from the ceiling, Robotnik encased in glass which then shatters... The most interesting ones for me are definitely the ending storyboard and the boss battle - it's amazing to see that the famous wrecking ball was originally conceived to be a part of a "proper" demolition machine! Interesting to note that the platforms were intended to be further in and move up and down, which would in theory make it quite a bit harder - I wonder if it was intended to be a later boss than it ended up being?

As well as the history of the MD, hardware plans etc, does the "Collected Works" book contain concept designs and production materials of this sort from some of the other games featured? If so I definitely need to pick this up. = )
This post has been edited by McAleeCh: 06 November 2014 - 02:42 AM

#383 User is offline SpeedStarTMQ 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 03:48 AM

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For other games they have bits of concept art and designs straight from the the designers themselves. It's not chock full of tonnes of stuff like that, but they have a decent amount of stuff at least I'd never seen before, including alternate designs of the Mega Drive controllers.

#384 User is offline Falk 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 04:05 AM

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View PostMachenstein, on 06 November 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

View PostFalk, on 05 November 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

The more of this is out on the open the more I get the sense that the major struggle of ownership and design between multiple entities predated even the first game. :(/>/>/>/>

Honestly, I feel that had Sega established Sonic's band as the cast of characters, there wouldn't be all of these separate continuities with different characters. AoSTH, SatAM, the Archie comics, the Fleetway comics, Underground, Boom, they probably wouldn't even exist. Even the Japanese continuity feels disconnected between the classic games, the Adventure era games, and the "Orbot era" (Unleashed to Lost World) games. That's not to mention the OVA and the various mangas.


Eh, don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing SoA specifically*. And on the other hand, I'm not bashing SoJ specifically*. All I'm saying is, they really could have been two separate franchises at some point (ideally before the first game) and the decades-long power struggle might have been alleviated somewhat.

*That being said I've never been shy about stating what I completely disagree with stylistically coming from either entity. Mohawk Sonic being one. "Dr. Eggman" being another. Hence in a weird way the power struggle resulting in what's Modern sonic today along with what's generally accepted as 'classic' Sonic is a good thing. Not to mention how having both western and Japanese influences made the franchise's music as memorable as it is today. Michael Jackson involvement aside, which up till today I think was a needless clusterfuck the franchise really could have done without**, as good as S3&K's soundtrack is.

(**p.s. don't hurt me)
This post has been edited by Falk: 06 November 2014 - 04:12 AM

#385 User is offline SpeedStarTMQ 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 06:23 AM

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Well you're right, it's potentially the reason S3&K is struggling currently, so MJ's involvement could really have caused this major issue.

Still, the music is freakin' electric, I wouldn't change the way things have gone.

It's given us a lot to do in our spare time!

#386 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 06:29 AM

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View PostSpeedStarTMQ, on 06 November 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

Guys, I can't stress how important it is you read the book.

I can't stress how important it is to have scans in the public domain so this stuff is preserved forever, but politics!

#387 User is offline SpeedStarTMQ 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 06:51 AM

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View PostBlack Squirrel, on 06 November 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

View PostSpeedStarTMQ, on 06 November 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

Guys, I can't stress how important it is you read the book.

I can't stress how important it is to have scans in the public domain so this stuff is preserved forever, but politics!

I'm happy to do this, but I'm a supporter of this kickstarter project and I don't agree with scanning everything until at least a reasonable period of time has passed. Makes me feel like I'm giving away the stuff for free which would be detrimental.

The book's been out, like, 2 days so far, it's a bit early days :v:

Plus, everyone on the internet comes to Sonic Retro for news like this. I wouldn't be bothered if we were a closed community.
This post has been edited by SpeedStarTMQ: 06 November 2014 - 06:52 AM

#388 User is offline Falk 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 06:52 AM

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View PostSpeedStarTMQ, on 06 November 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

Well you're right, it's potentially the reason S3&K is struggling currently, so MJ's involvement could really have caused this major issue.

Still, the music is freakin' electric, I wouldn't change the way things have gone.

It's given us a lot to do in our spare time!


It's a stellar soundtrack, but completely not worth the hassle. I don't give a shit if MJ's the king of pop, there's a reason why legalese for music as it pertains to games is going through quite the volcano as far as union contracts, copyrights and publishing, secondaries, back-ends, etc go. What applies to pop music, what applies to film scores and TV, even, simply does not work for games due to its much more flexible nature.

Don't care if you're the King of China, when in Rome, do as Rome does. When you're doing game music, you're doing game music. Something that people didn't seem to grasp back then. (And which people don't seem to fully grasp right now, although times are pretty telling)

edit: I personally feel that the fact that MJ's side reportedly 180'd out of the deal because he wasn't happy with the way the chip sounded is pretty telling he was being simply unreasonable because of his status.

And of course, we're going way off topic here. :P My MJ rants could honestly be its own thread so I'll just drop it for now.
This post has been edited by Falk: 06 November 2014 - 06:59 AM

#389 User is offline Spinksy 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 07:19 AM

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I've ordered the book :-)

#390 User is offline Machenstein 

Posted 06 November 2014 - 08:17 AM

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View PostSpeedStarTMQ, on 06 November 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

If the game had not been changed we might not all be here today as Sonic may not have been that popular if SoA hadn't stepped in.

I doubt Sonic's popularity was due to the omission of content rather than the content the game had. Sonic 1 had graphics, sound and gameplay that exceeded standards at the time. It helps that Sega went all out with the marketing because they needed Sonic to sell the Genesis. I don't think the band members would have interfered with that. I know a lot of the scrapped concepts were a little weird, but so was the stuff that Sega would eventually think up. Flying two-tailed foxes, red echidnas with giant fists, and while we're talking about American Sonic stuff, all of AoSTH.

At the same time, maybe the Western world wasn't ready for Ohshima's brand of weirdness. Ristar and Dynamite Headdy had a similar brand of weirdness and those games didn't exactly take off. Both of those games were heavily localized though, so maybe it wasn't their Japanese influence that interfered with their commercial success.

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