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Sonic 1 prototype Video (FAKE) This one had some of us going for awhile....

#181 User is offline tokumaru 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 06:44 PM

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View PostEduardo Knuckles, on 07 February 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

It's impossible to have image of old console games in a TV without the RF/AV filtering, even if they're on a high-resolution TV or something like this.

Unless the ROM's already dumped and he's running it on an emulator and not on an actual console. The lack of NTSC artifacts and the tearing of the palm trees mean nothing if this is the case.

I'm not saying that the prototype is real, just that a few things that have been pointed out as evidence of it being fake can be explained by the use of an emulator.

#182 User is offline redhotsonic 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 06:53 PM

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View PostRGX, on 07 February 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Don't you find it odd the video quality is pretty shit with no sound considering its 2012 already? The 90s are long gone... I'm pretty sure he can get a hold of a better camera with sound by now.


Maybe this "beta" on the video has no sound yet =P


I agree with most of the members here. It's not real. As much as everyone wants it to be real, it's not. All the compares members have done with magazines scans doesn't match to the video. Fair enough, the video could be an earlier build to the scans we have, but...


View Postsaxman, on 07 February 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

- Buildings overlapping mountains between 0:53 and 0:55 in the first video... again, this would be difficult to do that on the Genesis. Is it possible? Sure, it is technically possible, but not realistic. It would be a programming nightmare. Sonic 3 does it because the sections that overlap in the background cycle. The same goes for Hill Top in Sonic 2. However in this, those buildings in front of those mountains do not cycle at all. It therefore doesn't make any sense. As for 7 layers of scrolling that Naka claims -- that would make sense if the trees and rocks in the front were objects that scrolled at a different speed. Therefore, it's simply unreasonable to accept this as scrolling done on the Genesis. This person knows nothing about the Genesis VDP.


View PostEndri, on 07 February 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

This "proto" game uses pixel-perfect collisions. Pixel-perfect.


... it's looking too slim to be real.



View PostEndri, on 07 February 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

I AM completely sure that this is a fan game, and I bet my status as a tech member on it.


And what happens if I lose the bet? =P

#183 User is offline Aquaslash 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:04 PM

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Having just now looked at it, am I the only one who's basically getting a slide show?

#184 User is offline RGX 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:10 PM

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@travelsonic and redhotsonic

Can't help it if I'm skeptical about always seeing hoax discoveries and hoax leaks always containing the shit camera quality in attempt to make the video seem legit.

Not to mention if the video quality was clearer, the inconsistencies would be much more noticeable. Obscuring the image is the oldest trick in the book when creating hoaxes.
This post has been edited by RGX: 07 February 2012 - 07:15 PM

#185 User is offline redhotsonic 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:14 PM

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View PostRGX, on 07 February 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

@travelsonic and redhotsonic

Can't help it if I'm skeptical about always seeing hoax discoveries and hoax leaks always containing the shit camera quality in attempt to make the video seem legit.


The thing is, he's shown 2 videos of "practically" the same thing now, but not once has he just pointed the camera down to show the MegaDrive with the BETA ROM inside. Just doing that, even for a second, would give me a second thought and think, "wait a second, maybe he's not bull-shitting here". But until then, I'm not buying this story.

#186 User is offline Dissident93 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:15 PM

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Just because we have pictures of one beta of Sonic 1, doesn't mean it wasn't tweaked at all before/since that. This is most likely fake, but comparing it to the beta pictures like crazy, when it may be a different beta, and then calling it fake without being aware of any other betas, is a bit silly to me.

EDIT: And I don't believe any of this anyway. Sorry guys, but that cart has been long gone for years.
This post has been edited by Dissident93: 07 February 2012 - 07:16 PM

#187 User is offline Twimfy 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:23 PM

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What I find bizarre is that if you were going to fake the beta you would do whatever you could to clone it as accurately as possible. So why when drawing mountains and those "buildings" why wouldn't you make exact clones of them? Even a novice in PS could pretty much duplicate them with 99% accuracy.

Either the creator is lazy, underestimates the communities analysing skills OR it's actually a different build altogether and is genuine.

However the colour is what screams fake to me.

I also find it interesting that this is being played by one person and filmed by another.

#188 User is offline RGX 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:24 PM

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View PostDissident93, on 07 February 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

Just because we have pictures of one beta of Sonic 1, doesn't mean it wasn't tweaked at all before/since that.

If this was truly the case though, Sonic in those videos would've moved much more quickly.


Also am I the only one wondering where the hell was this in the videos? Although a bit more easy to recreate this and fool everyone, I'm shocked it wasn't included in the videos at all.
Posted Image
This post has been edited by RGX: 07 February 2012 - 07:25 PM

#189 User is offline saxman 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:32 PM

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View PostDissident93, on 07 February 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

Just because we have pictures of one beta of Sonic 1, doesn't mean it wasn't tweaked at all before/since that. This is most likely fake, but comparing it to the beta pictures like crazy, when it may be a different beta, and then calling it fake without being aware of any other betas, is a bit silly to me.

EDIT: And I don't believe any of this anyway. Sorry guys, but that cart has been long gone for years.


Screen shot comparisons are the ultimate proof. Sure you must find it very coincidential that the clouds are from the special stage, that for some reason they were redone out of the blue like that. Or the moutains were rounded off instead of pointed. These are changes that I feel are so minor of a difference for a video showing a demo that offers nothing more than allowing the player to walk and roll around.

Point being, if it's a different version of the game, I would expect to see something much more than just allowing Sonic to move around an empty stage. This is common sense talking here. So the "different beta" argument doesn't hold up at all in my opinion. And I already destroyed the "same beta" side of the equation.

#190 User is offline Dr. Mecha 

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View PostCinossu, on 07 February 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Has anyone from here tried contacting this person on Youtube to find out how this is being played? (Cart, ROM, something else, whatever.) It might be a good opening to establish an actual rapport with the person instead of just being "lol dis b fake", and may open up the way to more "footage", etc.


We could try that, but then again he/she won't answer a damn thing and wait for two whole months before declaring "April Fools" on us.

#191 User is offline Arique 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:06 PM

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View PostDr. Mecha, on 07 February 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

View PostCinossu, on 07 February 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Has anyone from here tried contacting this person on Youtube to find out how this is being played? (Cart, ROM, something else, whatever.) It might be a good opening to establish an actual rapport with the person instead of just being "lol dis b fake", and may open up the way to more "footage", etc.


We could try that, but then again he/she won't answer a damn thing and wait for two whole months before declaring "April Fools" on us.

Well, he is a trial member here on Retro so... Anybody want to message him on here? I mean, if this ends up being fake, we can just make him stay as a Pending Member forever, right?

#192 User is offline Vangar 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 09:27 PM

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In the comparison shot, Sonic is clearly with his head tilted back. This is the same comment I made In this current thread where someone is trying to re-create the Sonic 1 Beta.

Seriously looks just like that one that guy just made. This is really obvious guys =/.

#193 User is offline Hitaxas 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:30 PM

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View PostVangar, on 07 February 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Seriously looks just like that one that guy just made. This is really obvious guys =/.


Posted Image

No it doesn't. It might not exactly match the Beta image we have, The quills don't look the same as the image in the topic you linked to. Neither does the ear on that image, or the nose, hands, feet.

Edit: Tried to match the colors of the sprites just for comparison, It's possible the brighter palette on Sonic in the original image is only brighter because of the image quality.

Posted Image
This post has been edited by Hitaxas: 07 February 2012 - 10:51 PM

#194 User is offline Lanzer 

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So the faker is here huh? Wonder why he isn't defending himself against all these statements. You would think he would try to explain things to ease our minds, unless he just signed up to see our reactions.

#195 User is offline Endri 

Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:38 PM

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View Postflamewing, on 07 February 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

View PostEndri, on 07 February 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

As I said, there is also collision against the wall. Actually, the correct way to describe it would be pixel-pefect-square-collision-to-collision-mask. You can tell the collision method because the Sonic jumping sprite slides around the edge of the ledge in a perfect square. In an actuall Mega Drive Sonic game, Sonic would start to enter inside the wall/overlapse the wall as soon as no collision were detected by the horizontal "ray."

If you increase the collision size of Sonic enough, you can get collisions exactly like those in the movie: Sonic only overlaps with terrain/objects because his collision box is smaller than his sprite dimensions suggest. For all we know, a prototype could have had a different hit box size that was tweaked later for playability.

Now, I am skeptical that this is real; but this argument is not very good to prove that.
Uh, not quite, and I will show why:

Indeed, Sonic only overlaps because his collision ray is smaller than his sprite.

Posted Image
In the first pic, we see that effect in action—Sonic sprite is overlapsing the wall. But what I was trying to point is what happens in the second pic: if the player keeps pushing against the wall, as soon as the horizontal ray doesn't pick any collision with the terrain, Sonic starts to outright enter inside the ledge.

Now, If you actually increase the collision size of Sonic enough to match his sprite size...

Posted Image

In the third pic, we see that the effect is now, indeed, much better. However, everything is only so much well, because as soon as the horizontal ray doesn't pick any collision with the terrain (4th pic), the same hell happens, and Sonic sprite overlapes the ledge's edge. So increasing Sonic's horizontal collision rays doesn't quite solves the problem.

What happens in the video, however, is something acking more to this:

Posted Image

Sonic has a solid bounding box, and he smoothly slides around the ledge's edge. Again, this is an effect that is common in most recent (and not so much) APIs.

Now, I will give that the effect would be do-able on the Motorola 68000, but two horizontal rays would be required: one at the extreme top and another at the extreme bottom. But then the bottom ray would start to detect collisions with short steps and slopes (something that it shouldn't), and would require a hell lot of programming to solve it, other than simply peeking a byte on the reverse collision array to see if a collision has been detected by that ray or not. Not to mention that the entire collision method would have to be redone in order to accomodate rays that rotates according to the terrain angle, etc.

Well, with my vast experience with fan games and the Mega Drive Sonic games, I would say that everything in this "proto" video is something I would see in a MMF game.

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