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Sonic 3 A.I.R. Release Thread By Eukaryot. Too awesome not to post about

#151 User is offline Aerosol 

Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:04 AM

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I might give this a whirl, if for no other reason than to confirm my suspicions that 2D classic Sonic suffers a little from a wide-screen format.

#152 User is online Dark Sonic 

Posted 13 May 2019 - 07:42 AM

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View PostAerosol, on 13 May 2019 - 04:04 AM, said:

I might give this a whirl, if for no other reason than to confirm my suspicions that 2D classic Sonic suffers a little from a wide-screen format.

Personally I think Sonic was always meant for widescreen. You have more time to react to obstacles that are in front of you.

#153 User is offline IrnBru 

Posted 13 May 2019 - 10:55 AM

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Sorry, I've been really busy, here's 2 bin files of the MGZ2 boss glitch, one with hyper sonic, one with sonic electric shield and one where the glitch doesn't happen but the strategy is the same.

https://mega.nz/#F!6...UG4fQaAzx0Fu70g

#154 User is offline Knucklez 

Posted 13 May 2019 - 12:52 PM

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View PostDark Sonic, on 13 May 2019 - 07:42 AM, said:

View PostAerosol, on 13 May 2019 - 04:04 AM, said:

I might give this a whirl, if for no other reason than to confirm my suspicions that 2D classic Sonic suffers a little from a wide-screen format.

Personally I think Sonic was always meant for widescreen. You have more time to react to obstacles that are in front of you.

That may be, but that in turn makes you (or encourages you to be) less reactive and stunts you from improving your overall skill. The only true benefit to widescreen is the aesthetic of it, while other things you can argue are more detrimental to the player.

Widescreen providing more reaction time = pseudo-easy mode. And that's certainly true when you take 4:3-native gameplay and make it 16:9-native. But if you want it to be easier, more power to ya.

#155 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 13 May 2019 - 01:21 PM

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The sticky things in Mushroom Hill Zone - the ones you can only escape by spin dashing.

I'm thinking the drop dash should work too? Certainly Hyper Sonic's double jump.

#156 User is offline Eukaryot 

Posted 14 May 2019 - 02:38 PM

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Hey guys,

Investigating on the MGZ 2 boss bug that IrnBru reported right now - thanks for the game recordings, they were very helpful :) .
I guess I found the circumstances under which this happens: You have to play with Sonic alone, go Hyper and then destroy a spiker badnik using the Hyper dash, before enetring the boss area. This way, it can be reproduced in S3&K on an emulator as well, here in Kega Fusion:
https://youtu.be/Y9ispgJSTKM
Just wanted to ask, is this a known S3&K bug? I couldn't find information about it so far, but maybe just fed Google with the wrong keywords.

By the way, for the next update I'll address some of the bugs you reported recently, including these:

View PostT.Q., on 12 May 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

So there's the SFX of a door opening near the end (about 85% near the end) of the level at the bottom, even those the player doesn't hit a button to open a door.


View PostBlack Squirrel, on 13 May 2019 - 01:21 PM, said:

The sticky things in Mushroom Hill Zone - the ones you can only escape by spin dashing.
I'm thinking the drop dash should work too? Certainly Hyper Sonic's double jump.


And the MGZ 2 boss bug, of course.

#157 User is offline IrnBru 

Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:16 PM

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View PostEukaryot, on 14 May 2019 - 02:38 PM, said:

Hey guys,

Investigating on the MGZ 2 boss bug that IrnBru reported right now - thanks for the game recordings, they were very helpful :)/> .
I guess I found the circumstances under which this happens: You have to play with Sonic alone, go Hyper and then destroy a spiker badnik using the Hyper dash, before enetring the boss area. This way, it can be reproduced in S3&K on an emulator as well, here in Kega Fusion:
https://youtu.be/Y9ispgJSTKM
Just wanted to ask, is this a known S3&K bug? I couldn't find information about it so far, but maybe just fed Google with the wrong keywords.

By the way, for the next update I'll address some of the bugs you reported recently, including these:

View PostT.Q., on 12 May 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

So there's the SFX of a door opening near the end (about 85% near the end) of the level at the bottom, even those the player doesn't hit a button to open a door.


View PostBlack Squirrel, on 13 May 2019 - 01:21 PM, said:

The sticky things in Mushroom Hill Zone - the ones you can only escape by spin dashing.
I'm thinking the drop dash should work too? Certainly Hyper Sonic's double jump.


And the MGZ 2 boss bug, of course.


Nice, I never knew about that glitch in the OG version since I've been playing Complete exclusively for years, I play the levels the same and I've never noticed this bug before.

#158 User is offline Aerosol 

Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:49 PM

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View PostKnucklez, on 13 May 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

View PostDark Sonic, on 13 May 2019 - 07:42 AM, said:

View PostAerosol, on 13 May 2019 - 04:04 AM, said:

I might give this a whirl, if for no other reason than to confirm my suspicions that 2D classic Sonic suffers a little from a wide-screen format.

Personally I think Sonic was always meant for widescreen. You have more time to react to obstacles that are in front of you.

That may be, but that in turn makes you (or encourages you to be) less reactive and stunts you from improving your overall skill. The only true benefit to widescreen is the aesthetic of it, while other things you can argue are more detrimental to the player.

Widescreen providing more reaction time = pseudo-easy mode. And that's certainly true when you take 4:3-native gameplay and make it 16:9-native. But if you want it to be easier, more power to ya.


This has been my niggle with it since wide-screen sonic fangames were a thing.

#159 User is offline Tribeam 

Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:01 PM

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Did some research on that MGZ2 boss crash, my theory is, from what I can see, when you kill that Spiker with the hyper flash, it's writing over some of Tails' reserved object memory, so when Tails spawns it crashes the game.

Here is a screenshot of the ram addresses of Tails' ram after the flash (normally its all 0 when going into the boss)
Spoiler


Edit: Forcing 0xB04F (Tails' routine) to 0 before the boss fight prevents this glitch.
Edit2: Not specific to that particular Spiker, all Spikers corrupt tails' memory when the hyper flash is used.

This post has been edited by Tribeam: 15 May 2019 - 03:36 PM

#160 User is offline Eukaryot 

Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:47 PM

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View PostTribeam, on 15 May 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

Did some research on that MGZ2 boss crash, my theory is, from what I can see, when you kill that spiker with the hyper flash, it's writing over some of Tails' reserved object memory, so when Tails spawns it crashes the game.

Here is a screenshot of the ram addresses of Tails' ram after the flash (normally its all 0 when going into the boss)
Spoiler


Edit: Forcing 0xB04F (Tails' routine) to 0 before the boss fight prevents this glitch.

I came to a similar conclusion by now: 0xb04f gets overwritten in ROM address 0x088db4, after register a1 got set to 0xffffb04a - which seems weird in case that Tails is not even initialized.
Going with a different solution, an additional check just before 0x088d5c whether the 4 bytes at RAM 0xb04a are zero, and return if so. I guess both solutions are fine.

This and few other fixes are now in the updated preview version:
- Added music options for the SSZ boss fights taken from Sonic 1 & 2
- Fix for "frame eating" glitch with character dying at the start of MGZ 2 boss that can happen if using Hyper Sonic
- Fixed that some sound test tracks kept playing when leaving the options menu
- Allow Sonic to free himself from the MHZ sticky vines using drop dash
- Fix for an door opening sound in LRZ 1 caused by an offscreen wall door
This post has been edited by Eukaryot: 15 May 2019 - 03:47 PM

#161 User is offline Frostav 

Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:30 PM

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How is the Drop Dash implemented in this game? Mania requires that you let go of the jump button and press it again to initiate it whereas e.g LakeFeperd's implementation in After The Sequel will start a drop dash if you just hold the button while jumping and don't let go, which I'm not as much of a fan of.

#162 User is offline Eukaryot 

Posted 16 May 2019 - 03:58 PM

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View PostFrostav, on 15 May 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:

How is the Drop Dash implemented in this game? Mania requires that you let go of the jump button and press it again to initiate it whereas e.g LakeFeperd's implementation in After The Sequel will start a drop dash if you just hold the button while jumping and don't let go, which I'm not as much of a fan of.

It's pretty much Mania-like.

#163 User is offline McAleeCh 

Posted 17 May 2019 - 03:40 AM

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View PostEukaryot, on 15 May 2019 - 03:47 PM, said:

- Added music options for the SSZ boss fights taken from Sonic 1 & 2
Oh, awesome - that's a feature I've wanted to see in SSZ ever since Sonic Advance did the same for the returning bosses in X Zone - I wish they'd done it in the original, though can understand why not as they'd presumably have had to pay Masato Nakamura royalties for the use of the tracks.

Not able to check this out at the mo, but are they simply the untouched tracks from Sonic 1 and Sonic 2, or have the drums been updated to use the Sonic 3 & Knuckles percussion samples to help them blend in better with the rest of the soundtrack?
This post has been edited by McAleeCh: 17 May 2019 - 03:43 AM

#164 User is offline DJSpindash 

Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:11 AM

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View PostMcAleeCh, on 17 May 2019 - 03:40 AM, said:

Not able to check this out at the mo, but are they simply the untouched tracks from Sonic 1 and Sonic 2, or have the drums been updated to use the Sonic 3 & Knuckles percussion samples to help them blend in better with the rest of the soundtrack?

Like the S2 Super theme, the emulated versions have the original drums and the remastered versions have the S3K drums.

On another note, here's another work-in-progress remastered track, this time muting some of the channels for the loop. Any feedback or suggestions appreciated. :)


This post has been edited by DJSpindash: 17 May 2019 - 11:18 AM

#165 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 17 May 2019 - 12:58 PM

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View PostDJSpindash, on 17 May 2019 - 11:11 AM, said:

Any feedback or suggestions appreciated.

I like the idea of making the second loop a bit different, though it may need more than just muting a channel or two.


Back when Sonic 2 HD was a community thing, there was a promising version of Metropolis Zone that came up:



ignoring all the fancy pants instruments and guitar-heavy stuff, it's the subtle changes here and there on the second run that make this interesting. It's the same tune, but it isn't.
This post has been edited by Black Squirrel: 17 May 2019 - 12:58 PM

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