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Sonic Forces

#3931 User is offline Dario FF 

Posted Yesterday, 10:30 AM

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Content creation is clearly Sonic Team's crutch going by the awful level design shown in that DLC. Levels on top of existing levels (just like the Generations side missions) just because their workflow requires far too many steps to make brand new stages. No matter the skill of their designers, they can't make magic without significant time to iterate properly on it. Add more and more steps to that and you end up with the person in charge of the object placement making their own level with boxes and using the existing one as a background.

They need to get this sorted out before the next game if they want to keep up with the next generations of hardware or be left behind. It's clear they need a significant investment on that at this point.
This post has been edited by Dario FF: Yesterday, 10:30 AM

#3932 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted Yesterday, 10:49 AM

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I mean they put so much shit in the backgrounds. I feel like they could simplify them a little if they needed to save time. Instead sometimes the backgrounds look more fun than the actual level.

#3933 User is offline dot.kh 

Posted Yesterday, 12:22 PM

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View PostDark Sonic, on Yesterday, 10:49 AM, said:

I mean they put so much shit in the backgrounds. I feel like they could simplify them a little if they needed to save time. Instead sometimes the backgrounds look more fun than the actual level.

The game after the next should address that.

#3934 User is offline Kharen 

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View PostDark Sonic, on Yesterday, 10:49 AM, said:

I mean they put so much shit in the backgrounds. I feel like they could simplify them a little if they needed to save time. Instead sometimes the backgrounds look more fun than the actual level.


And that sums up my experience with Sonic Colors, actually. Aquarium Park was one long ride of "Oh my god, that looks beautiful! Can I go there? No? Well, damn..."

#3935 User is offline Tiller 

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View PostDario FF, on Yesterday, 10:30 AM, said:

Content creation is clearly Sonic Team's crutch going by the awful level design shown in that DLC. Levels on top of existing levels (just like the Generations side missions) just because their workflow requires far too many steps to make brand new stages. No matter the skill of their designers, they can't make magic without significant time to iterate properly on it. Add more and more steps to that and you end up with the person in charge of the object placement making their own level with boxes and using the existing one as a background.They need to get this sorted out before the next game if they want to keep up with the next generations of hardware or be left behind. It's clear they need a significant investment on that at this point.



View PostDark Sonic, on Yesterday, 10:49 AM, said:

I mean they put so much shit in the backgrounds. I feel like they could simplify them a little if they needed to save time. Instead sometimes the backgrounds look more fun than the actual level.


The thing is though that the backgrounds have been heavily simplified in comparison to Generations. At the very least the art style and backgrounds have much less going on that in Generations and Colors. Given how short the stages are and the very few extra paths that exist in them I would hope there are a large amount of stages to compensate.

If that is not the case, Dario is right in that they have massive problems building background content to fit the relatively simple designs of their stages. It's not like they're really doing a good job building unique elements for stages given the very low amount of unique level gimmicks. They need a better solution for filling out their stages if this is their limiting factor.

#3936 User is offline Dark Sonic 

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They're simplified sure, but there's still a lot there. I mean they could take a page from the classic book and have repeating background sections. You don't have to model an entire world back there if it's just GHZ again. If the level you play through is fun I think people will be ok seeing that bush a 3rd or 4th time :v:

#3937 User is online TimmiT 

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I imagine part of the reason they went for the simplified graphical style in Sonic Lost World is because it's easier to make levels in that style. Was probably easier for them to re-use assets without awkwardly placing boxes everywhere in that game as well.

#3938 User is online XCubed 

Posted Yesterday, 07:30 PM

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Canon 2D playable Shadow is like another part of Megamix coming alive again.

Watch this game just be a 3D level creator and the player is actually infinite as we (the fan base) don't fuckin die.

The fact that we are getting a PC release (I'm sure my laptop won't run it) is amazing. I'm sure they will find a way to delay that too.

#3939 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted Yesterday, 07:34 PM

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View PostDario FF, on Yesterday, 10:30 AM, said:

Add more and more steps to that and you end up with the person in charge of the object placement making their own level with boxes and using the existing one as a background.


This is literally how every modern game is made. It's called white boxing:

Posted Image

Using white boxing is not some sign of poor work flow, the exact opposite in fact.

#3940 User is offline ItalianForce 

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View Postdot.kh, on Yesterday, 12:22 PM, said:

View PostDark Sonic, on Yesterday, 10:49 AM, said:

I mean they put so much shit in the backgrounds. I feel like they could simplify them a little if they needed to save time. Instead sometimes the backgrounds look more fun than the actual level.

The game after the next should address that.


I recall someone at Sega (Probably Aaron) explaining that in Sonic Lost World, one of the reasons for the tube stages and simple skybox backgrounds was so they could spend more time and effort on the actual stages.

So I suppose intricate backgrounds or not, the level design can still be shit.

#3941 User is offline Dario FF 

Posted 39 minutes ago

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View PostCooljerk, on Yesterday, 07:34 PM, said:

This is literally how every modern game is made. It's called white boxing:

PIC

Using white boxing is not some sign of poor work flow, the exact opposite in fact.

I'm talking about the level being actual IRON BOXES spammed all over the place with this and making the real stage geometry work as a decoration instead of making an actual new level.

I'm not gonna expect them to make a new level for free DLC given that making new geometry is such an organized and long process. I'm just saying they should question why that is a long process in the first place for the next game and what sacrifices they could make.

Unleashed solved a lot of technical problems that very few engines could actually handle at the time because Sonic requires a very particular kind of level design. It's probably time to start thinking about that again instead of dragging the Hedgehog Engine to next gen with a couple of graphical updates.
This post has been edited by Dario FF: 33 minutes ago

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