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Main Character Art Sonic/Tails/Knuckles and Shit

#61 User is offline Kamon62 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 01:03 AM

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I had an idea for a badnik for the 'rain forest ruin zone'. Seeing as it is set in a rain forest I believe it should have rain forest creatures. I have chosen to make a Toucan Badnik to fit the theme! Basically, if you can't read the writing, my idea for this is to have this badnik sitting in the trees. When Sonic approaches it flies down low to the ground. The bird beak and wings will hurt you but you can destroy it by jumping on top of it. This birds wings are like a guillotine and folds them down to the ground. They just tip the ground so you can't roll under it. As the wings touch the ground I thought maybe it could have some grass or other debree flinging out as it barely cuts the ground for a good effect that shows it is cutting through it. Also it has jet packs so the idea that it isn't using its wings whilst flying won't be confusing. Also, another variation could be it perching on something in the back ground. and it enlarges as it comes into view on screen. Please tell me what you think.
Posted Image
This post has been edited by Kamon62: 16 November 2008 - 01:25 AM

#62 User is offline STHX 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 09:13 AM

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All right, the project came back to Sonic Retro, and new contributions are coming from various members, but some of the ideas posted in the old forum had some potential, and since not all the posts of the old forums have been yet trasfered today I recovered one of it and I tried to expand its concept.

One day someone posted the idea of a fake Monitor Badnick (can't remember who, sorry) and, some week after, someone else (again, I have no clue on who this guy was) posted the idea of a fake End of Act Signpost. Even if simple, I liked both concept, but other members reported that these two Badnicks had some problems:

1 - The fake Monitor, while interesting, had no means of defending itself rather than running. It was suggested that it could have hurted the player if broken (like the Eggman Monitor) but since he ran away no one would have hitted it on purpose (besides, I don't like the idea of a Badfnick that hurts the player when destroyed).

2 - The fake Signpost, while cunning, couldn't have appeared very often, since it would have been annoying if every Signpost moved away when Sonic approached.

However, no one thougt of the easier solution: combine the two enemies in a mid-boss.

Why? For the same reason the Fake Egg-Capsule was a mid-boss, because it would have becomed annoying after the second time. Also, this mid-boss is perfect as the first mid-boss of the whole game, because if you meet it later the player would immediately notice that there is something wrong with the Signpost.

All right, cool concept, but how does it work? (notice: since I never saved the original sprites posted I redrawn all sprites using the ones posted in the graphics topic as a reference)

After going all way to the end of the first level of the game, the player reaches the signpost and passes it, right after this Sonic goes past the boundaries in a fancy Sonic 1/2 way and a fake victory music plays (ten times cooler if it is a remix of/an arrangement of/the original Sonic 1/2 victory music). However when the signpost stops the music stops too and the player notices that there is something wrong in the signpost, because:
Posted Image

The signpost animates and flies away up on the screen, then the camera moves a few chunks after and catch ups with Sonic, and this area becomes the battlezone.
Probably you are wondering how this boss its supposed to attack, but I'm sure that deep inside you already know the answer:
Posted Image

The signpost falls down from the sky (he can't be damaged in this moment and hitting him will result in a ring loss), and hits the ground 2 times. Each time he hits the ground a fake Monitor appear and move in the direction of Sonic (the monitors can be destroyed without problems). The first 2 times the signpost tries to aim at Sonic, while the third time it falls it tries to avoid him. If you look closely you'll notice that the signpost rotate a little slower after hitting the ground 2 times. That's the signal to attack him. If Sonic hits him in mid air the signpost will bounce away from Sonic (at every consecutive hit it will become harder to hit it again), while if the signpost hits the ground it will stand still for some seconds (where he can still be damaged, but it will not bounce in the air). The signpost will then propel himself in the air, and the whole sequence will repeat.

Basically the fake signpost moves like a true signpost!

After 8 hits the fake signpost falls to the ground and breaks as if it was an old TV monitor:
Posted Image

And finally the true Signpost falls from the sky.SONIC HASPASSED ACT 1
Full sprite sheet:
Posted Image


And here you go ;D.

Comments? Suggestions?

#63 User is offline Ollie 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 09:17 AM

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Amazing! If this project actually gets anywhere and that's in, that's the only reason why I'd play it. Sounds so fun :thumbsup:

#64 User is offline Jayextee 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 09:37 AM

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View PostSTHX, on Nov 16 2008, 02:13 PM, said:

However, no one thougt of the easier solution: combine the two enemies in a mid-boss.

Why? For the same reason the Fake Egg-Capsule was a mid-boss, because it would have becomed annoying after the second time. Also, this mid-boss is perfect as the first mid-boss of the whole game, because if you meet it later the player would immediately notice that there is something wrong with the Signpost.


And there I was thinking the capsule was the central theme of Flying Battery Zone, literally an airborne battery of animals, rings and badniks, which is how Robotnik distributes them. Also, my faulty memory reports that the FBZ miniboss wasn't the only fake capsule in the entire zone. But hey.

=P

Seriousness: The idea isn't bad. I think there needs be more indication to the player when the post can sustain damage (Possibly a black/red glow as well as a slower speed?), and I think the eyes look a bit goofy.

A suggestion: The metal version of whatever your character is, I.E Metal Sonic or Knuckles. That way, at a glance, the spinning post appears pretty normal still (Making the fakeout spinning better, because that plain orange is very apparent in the spin animation) and even when it stops, it will take a player a second to notice the change for the first time.

#65 User is offline Galaxia 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 09:39 AM

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I think a decent boss idea would be similar to one explored in MHZ in Sonic + Knuckles, you know, the one where you have to continually run towards Robotnik, while dodging mines bolted to logs...

Only this time we couple it with a similar idea to the AIZ bomber before Sonic's boss and the mine boss from Gunstar Heroes - running continually while a boss runs up behind you or in front of you throwing bombs or missiles at you. It'd be great also if the level could change direction too, like it could end up going diagonally up or down as well as you run, to add to the challenge.

If I was any good at spriting or drawing, it'd describe what I mean perfectly. =P

#66 User is offline Jayextee 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 09:43 AM

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Oh yeah, another suggestion. The monitors should be moving Eggman Monitors. Come on, this is a boss and not a bonus! :thumbsup:

#67 User is offline Amistat 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 10:06 AM

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I like the toucan, it has a really classic style to it and could certainly annoy players who are just whizzing through the level he he he.


Since this is the concepts and ideas thread, I thought I'd throw in a few of my own, most were originally for a hack that never happened, but may find some use here. The rest are just general ideas for the project.

Spindash
It's a classic move that we all know and love, but it's not got a lot of development as the games have gone on, thus I suggest the following tweaks for your consideration;
The smoke that emanates from the charging is great, but what about little chunks of floor? A few small bits of debris that are loaded depending on which level (or even floor texture? So a different type is shown depending on if you're on grass or rock within the same level) that are kicked backwards when charging.
Just as long as we steer clear from Chaotix's horrible particle effect, oh boy was that fugly o.o

Spike walking
Here's an interesting one for you, Sonic's oldest and greatest enemy is of course, the dreaded spikes. He's been dealing with these things for quite a while now, surely he's come up with some sort of way around them? I propose a new move for the hedgie (and only the hedgie); if he's walking slowly (I mean really slowly) and walks onto some spikes that are the same level as the ground he starts on (so these areas would have to be planned short cuts for him) then he puts his arms out to the sides for balance and tip-toes across the tops of the spikes unharmed! From this position he can jump (landing back on the spikes will harm him though as he's approaching from a different height and moving too fast) but any other action will result in harm (ducking to spindash or moving too fast for example). He could stop on spikes using this technique too.
This move seems almost symbolic to me, Sonic can finally overcome one of his greatest obstacles. Watching him walk over spikes like this for the first time could be awesome =D

Knuckles
When it comes to the new games it seems that beyond necessity for traversing the landscape, Knuckles doesn't really spindash (I'm talking the 3D games which seem to try and differentiate the characters moves more into something more fitting and unique). Thus how about changing his spindash?
Nothing drastic, mainly an aesthetic change; instead of rolling up and spinning he puts his head down and scrapes his foot along the floor (one drag for each charge) before running off towards opponents in a rhino charge.
For his roll attack, that could either be left as is, or changed to his rhino charge also (I.e. if running along, tapping down causes Knux to put his head down rather than rolling up).
This potentially causes more work for the programmers as things like tubes would still require him to roll up (and I imagine he'd remain rolling when he came out) but the change overall could make him feel a lot fresher and more brutal in his style.
I'd imagine his rhino charge would have to cause him to duck quite low or he would not be able to get through regular small gaps with it; although this could be used as a way of forcing alternate routes, overall it would be annoying; I want to expand Knux rather than restrict him.

Another small note about Knux, his Chaotix sprite was ugly as sin, but the fact he looked down when climbing down was a nice touch, perhaps incorporating that would be a good idea? Also, chunks of debris as he climbs! It's the little details that make a world feel alive.

Now, what next?

Oh yes...


Unlockable characters

People seem to be all for Sonic, Tails and Knuckles which is a good start, however why just those? I'm not saying that everyone should be whacked in all over the place, but there are characters worthy of being bonus unlocks. A more interesting unlock system would be nice too, for example:

Blaze the Cat - Complete the game with Sonic
Blaze could come complete with her Rush moves and immunity to fire making her a worthy new gameplay style. Her fire immunity could also allow her to take unique routes that other characters would just get burnt trying to take (unless they have a fire shield of course).

Amy Rose - Complete the game with Tails
Her Advance incarnation was a unique enough basis to make her worth adding. New gameplay is always a good idea (as long as it's not lame anyway).

Espio the Chameleon - Complete the game with Knuckles
His 'walk anywhere mad skillz' are again enough to warrant a play through with just to mess around with and see how many routes you can now take. He's also one of the better looking character designs. Plus the graphics guys and programmers could have a chance to show off by making him change colour when idle to match his background.

Metal Sonic - Complete the final Super Sonic only mission
It seems only fair for Metal to be playable. He's pretty well loved and looks awesome to boot. He's shown several new tricks over the years to differentiate himself from Sonic; black shield, flight, mimicry etc. Plus not needing to breath could be a bonus in water stages :(
As he's one of the main villains he could get a bit more special treatment than the others too; a rotating pallet to make his crimson eye glow and the fact that he's not dependent on air could open up otherwise inaccessible water routes (drive players crazy trying to get through airless passages fast enough that they can't make, then allow them to kick themselves repeatedly upon realising Metal can just waltz through them!)

Nack the Weasel - Complete the game with Metal Sonic
He has a gun. That instantly makes his gameplay a break from the norm and he's a well loved character too.

Shadow the Hedgehog - Destroy 100+ badnicks in a single game
I'm not a big Shadow fan myself but I could see him fitting in as a bonus unlock. He looks pretty cool and since Sonic 2006 he showed that he can actually be fairly cool still even if the game wasn't so much. Energy moves galore and teleportation possibilities could be very satisfying.

Retro Sonic (Sonic 1 style sprite) - Complete the game with 6 chaos emeralds.
What's not to love? A fun little unlock with a nostalgic twist!

Level Specific Objects
This was touched on earlier when I posted some of my item concepts, but as I'm doing an idea dump I thought I'd elaborate a bit.
Basically it's what it says. Instead of having the same springs and monitors appearing through-out the game it could be a new idea to make them zone dependent. Even if we went with the same basic designs but altered them slightly.
Example:

Posted Image

1) My basic spring concept based off the Metropolis Zone pistons originally.
2) A grass-topped version for Tropical Zone
3) A stripped version for Circus Zone
4) A lichen-covered version for Underground Zone
5) A snowy version for Mountain Zone
6) A detailed version for City Zone
7) A unique version for a final Industrial Zone.

A similar thing could be done for monitors too.

Elite Enemies

This is an expansion of the multi-hit enemy idea in the newer games. What if we were to see different "ranks" of badniks this time around?
For example towards the start of the game we see basic enemies that follow the usual pattern of dying in a hit.
Later we see the same enemies but more heavily armoured and with more fire power. These each take three hits to kill (flashing and making that little "ping" sound when you hit them otherwise).
At the end, when you inevitably get into Robtinik's base you are now faced with the toughest of his badnik minions, each taking 5 hits to kill.
This would help with a feeling of progression, the closer to Robotnik you get, the harder things are going to be; it's not just the environments that get harder, Robotnik is actually going to actively try and stop you this time around.

Environmental Hazards
Sonic games have had elements since Sonic 3, but again they can be expanded on.

Fire - You touch it you get hurt, that's great. What if it set you on fire though? For a few seconds after you touch fire or lava you're covered in flames that sap rings after the initial hit meaning it's more of a scramble to grab your lost loot until you go out. A fire shield and playing as Blaze would make the player immune to fire, a great help in the Mountain level judging from it's design.
As a fun extra, Metal Sonic could be immune too. Making him stand in fire for a few seconds could even cause him to glow red hot, allowing him to damage enemies on touch for a few seconds until he cools down?

Ice - You sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide! Ice should be a pain in the ass *nod* Knux and Amy can smash ice certain obstacles to open new routes perhaps? The Ice shield could prevent you slipping on ice as a nice bonus.

Water - What ever happened to skimming across the top of the water in ball form? Any way to bring that back? Whenever she leaves water and stands on dry land Blaze could take a second to shake herself off, everyone knows cats hate water!

Miscellaneous
A few small bits that don't really fit anywhere else I guess;

Ring Monitors - Instead of instantly giving you 10 rings, could they pop and scatter 10 rings instead? Players would then have to choose to stop and collect or continue running onwards picking up only one or two as they go by.

The Ups... - I've not seen a complete sprite sheet for Sonic yet, are we going with the regular or Sonic CD style spring animation? I'm a big fan of the CD version I've gotta say.

and Downs! - I loved the fact Sonic had a "falling from spring animation" in Megamix. It managed to make his movements through the levels feel more polished somehow, like every eventuality had been considered. If we're really trying to make the next step in Sonic then something like that would really help too. Similarly, more poses in general could be nice; instead of flailing like a moron on water slides like he does when he gets damaged, what if Sonic slid sprawled on his side with a look of determination? Give the impression Sonic is ALWAYS in control, that'd help us get our little blue hero back to the status he should have.

Finally, a concept for the final battle. Or rather, the FINAL final battle, with Super Sonic.
At the finale if you have all the chaos emeralds, Metal Sonic plays his final hand; bursting from nowhere after Sonic and Robotnik's final battle and knocking the emeralds out of our hero's grasp.
A cutscene ensues (a Sonic Advance style sprite animation dealie, they seem like the next best step as far as showing plot quickly and concisely) where Metal uses the emeralds and the inevitable happens:

Final Boss: Super Metal Sonic.


He tears off, shattering a wall and such as he goes just for the sake of showing off.
Sonic runs through the streets after him until the two are out in a desert wasteland, as he gets close to Metal something interesting happens...
With close enough proximity to Metal, he transforms himself (being close enough to the emeralds). This is the clue for the following battle.

Super Metal flies off the ground, hurling energy balls at Sonic who is stuck running along after him. There are objects on the floor too such as rocks and spikes that must be jumped and rings that must be collected. The overall goal is to stay close enough to Metal for long enough with 50 rings for Sonic to turn Super (he starts to glow when close enough to indicate you're in the right place and have met all requirements).
When Super Sonic is in your control the two take the fight further off the ground, you now get to fly alongside Super Metal, dodging his energy attacks that stun you and swooping down if you need to to gather rings from nearer to the floor.
If you manage to ram him then he becomes stunned for a few seconds, this is your chance to score a blow! Fly up to Metal and Sonic will grab him, then begin pulling rings out of him hurling them behind them. Super Metal will un-stun after doing this and knock you away.
Doing this three times depletes his rings (well okay, he doesn't actually have a ring count, but that's the impression I'm going for) and he reverts to regular Metal Sonic. Striking him now causes him to drop an emerald that Sonic automatically grabs out of the air.
As all the emeralds are still close, both characters can maintain their super form and the battle continues.

This process is repeated 7 times (one for each emerald) making it potentially the longest (and most exhausting) Super Sonic battle to date.
With no emeralds left, Super Metal flies off very quickly, a button mashing session will allow you to catch up. His energy attacks still knock you back and he uses them more often, all you have to do is manage to ram him once however and the fight is all over.

If at any point you run out of rings in the air, you fall and must run along the ground again to collect rings and get close enough to Metal to turn Super again.

With Metal defeated a cut scene occurs showing Super Sonic hurling him against a rock or something equally brutal and...other stuff such as tying up loose story bits and the obligatory "chased by Amy" scene.

The fight itself is simple, but has several elements that it can switch between; if you maintain your rings well then you'll hardly ever see the ground and play as the golden hog for pretty much the entire battle, however if you get hit a lot and allow your rings to run down then you'll spend most of the battle running on the floor, only seeing brief glimpses of Super Sonic to score hits then return to the floor.

So that's my concept for an epic final battle anyway, and a bunch of other ideas that have been floating around in my twisted little head for a while.

Feel free to rip apart, use, or be inspired by!

tl;dl - :thumbsup:

#68 User is offline Lobotomy 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 10:45 AM

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QUOTE (Kamon62 @ Nov 15 2008, 10:03 PM) [post="246239"]Posted Image[/quote]

I like this a lot. You have my support for this one! :thumbsup:

#69 User is offline Armada 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 11:07 AM

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I'd suggest limiting the amount of players to Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. Too many characters is very annoying (for me), and it doesn't add too much replay value, but it does add more coding. Plus, more characters screams "THIS IS A SILLY FANGAME" to me.

#70 User is offline MoI 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 11:10 AM

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I do like the idea of the Sonic 1 sprite. It's a neat little extra.

#71 User is offline Armada 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 11:13 AM

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View PostMoI, on Nov 16 2008, 11:10 AM, said:

I do like the idea of the Sonic 1 sprite. It's a neat little extra.


I can live with that. But instead of it being unlockable, a nifty cheat code would seem better, like the original Sonic 1 level select code, or inputting the release date into the sound test.

#72 User is offline Amistat 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 11:19 AM

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Too many poorly implemented characters screams fangame. A selection of carefully chosen and well made characters gives replay value, options and a more prolonged feeling of achievement as there are several things to unlock after the main quest that are actually worth unlocking.

Concept art is nice but most people will just glance once then ignore it from then on. A new character on the other hand means they're more likely to try them out and play the game more, either because the new character is one they like or because their play style is interesting and opens up new opportunities ("Hey Metal doesn't need to breath? Time to go pwn the water zone?" or "I wonder if Espio can get anywhere new then? He can walk on the ceiling!").

If I'd said to include a whole list of redundant characters then I'd agree with you but I specifically chose the ones who would slot nicely into the game already and who would add to the experience rather than detract.

As long as it was made clear that the extra characters were exactly that, extras, and that the story was focused on Sonic, Tails and Knuckles then I don't think there'd be a problem with more playables.

And Centurey, your unlock methods and unlocks themselves seem a little awkward in places. Especially the Shadow one, it just doesn't sit right with me *shrugs*
Some of them seem to try and jam new things in for the sake of it, the boost meter being an unlockable for example, although it could be fun, it doesn't feel in-keeping with the classic Sonic style that seems to lay at the core of this project.
I like the idea of unlockable Time Attack somehow though.

#73 User is offline Icewarrior 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 11:21 AM

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STHX, that fake panel idea is amazing. This will be a great trap for us. Nice works on the sprites!

Amistat, no offense intended but unless there is people working on Amy and Blaze sprites, try to not make such suggestions.
Also, Espio sprites from Chaotix are absolutely not fitting with the other sprites such as Sonic, Tails and Knuckles.
This post has been edited by Icewarrior: 16 November 2008 - 11:24 AM

#74 User is offline Armada 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 11:22 AM

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View PostAmistat, on Nov 16 2008, 11:19 AM, said:

As long as it was made clear that the extra characters were exactly that, extras, and that the story was focused on Sonic, Tails and Knuckles then I don't think there'd be a problem with more playables.


Then why implement them at all? Sonic 3 focused on 3 characters, no more no less. Don't say Knuckles is unlockable, because he would've been in the full game. Anyway, I could probably live with 1 more playable character to Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. My logic behind this is Sonic 1: 1 character, S2: 2 characters, S3: 3 characters. It seems like a logical progression that allows for one more character that could make everyone happy.
This post has been edited by Armada: 16 November 2008 - 11:22 AM

#75 User is offline PC2 

Posted 16 November 2008 - 11:27 AM

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I'm going to be brutally honest here - I think adding a boatload of unlockable characters is a stupid and impracticle idea. Why? It would add absolutely nothing to the game. Even Megamix and the Advance series only had up to five characters. Nobody wants to play the same exact game 10 times over as Recolor the Hedgehog. It worked for Sonic 3K because there were only 3 characters, and the level design varied depending on your character. Last time I checked, this is still supposed to be Sonic 4. Let's at least be realistic - at most, one unlockable character would be enough.

Other than that, your ideas are pretty cool, Amistat. If I recall correctly, the metal sheild was going to be for walking on spikes.

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