[Mr. Pictures]

What needs to be worked on, is the games, NOT his image.

I don't think so. Consider how many times Sonic has had to be redesigned in the past for not only for his games, but other mediums like TV. Not just appearance-wise, but the "coolness" factor as well. As a character he doesn't seem to age too well, because what's considered "cool" changes with time, and that could mean a possibility of many things.

This post has been edited by Mr. Pictures: 15 May 2010 - 11:48 AM

[Volpino]

That'll never happen. Sonic's not 'cool' anymore.

If they make Sonic an FPS, I'm done. I've sat through Shadow and tried to like '06 and I've beaten Heroes and hyped about a Sonic RPG that ended up being disappointing because it wasn't like Zelda or freeform and I've even tried the Wii titles, but I cannot abide Sonic as an FPS. I hate shooters enough already.

God damn it SEGA if you're working on something, don't fuck it up this time.

Wow. I agree with Volpino.

Sonic has always been a platform game. Sure, there are spinoffs, but half of the time they take their name from another character in the universe, and the other half they are somewhat based on the original platforming. A Sonic FPS just wouldn't work at all, unless you played as Fang in a Silent Scope-esque game. However, in that case, it'd only be Fang, and only loosely based in the Soniverse, so it shouldn't bear the "Sonic" title.

Even the spin-offs were loosely based on platforming elements. Admittedly though, if they made a Fang spin-off, that would be less of a bother to me, especially considering the only way that would work is if they went off something like Fur Fighters and they (hopefully) wouldn't try a rated M game.

What needs to be worked on, is the games, NOT his image.

I don't think so. Consider how many times Sonic has had to be redesigned in the past for not only for his games, but other mediums like TV. Not just appearance-wise, but the "coolness" factor as well. As a character he doesn't seem to age too well, because what's considered "cool" changes with time, and that could mean a possibility of many things.

Not to mention originally Sonic was designed based on pop culture at the time, which was a bad design choice to begin with because it didn't last.

When I look at things like ASR, all I see is an attempt to make Sonic look cool because he's in a cool car, or with Unleashed, he's turning into a cool monster... Or with Black Knight, he's got a cool sword.

This post has been edited by Volpino: 15 May 2010 - 11:58 AM

[Mr. Pictures]

This is why he was redesigned.
This current form holds much more mileage than the "classic" design, becasue he looks more "badass". The Classic design was a great design, but todays audience wouldn't really like it that much.

Exactly, and I doubt it will stop there, he'll continue to be redesigned for the sake of staying hip. Do you think several years from now the current Sonic will still look "badass"? I think Sonic Team already has enough trouble keeping up with being stylish.

Still, Sonic is ridiculously popular. Almost too opoular given the quality of the games. I guess, kids just like supersonic blue hedgehogs.

I'd say his games are still quite popular, despite the lack of quality in some.

When I look at things like ASR, all I see is an attempt to make Sonic look cool because he's in a cool car, or with Unleashed, he's turning into a cool monster... Or with Black Knight, he's got a cool sword.

Yeah, Sonic Team and Sega themselves know Sonic can't support himself on his own, so he's supposed to still be cool because he's got accessories and crap.

On a related note in the past, I remember watching the pilot for SatAM and when they first introduce Sonic he jumps out playing a guitar and mentions Axl Rose. It's pretty pathetic.

This post has been edited by Mr. Pictures: 15 May 2010 - 12:14 PM

[Scartillery]

This is why he was redesigned.
This current form holds much more mileage than the "classic" design, becasue he looks more "badass". The Classic design was a great design, but todays audience wouldn't really like it that much.

Exactly, and I doubt it will stop there, he'll continue to be redesigned for the sake of staying hip. Do you think several years from now the current Sonic will still look "badass"? I think Sonic Team already has enough trouble keeping up with being stylish.

Hmm...maybe.

I'd say this one may stick for a while. Considering they've held it for nearly 10 years now and Sonic's popularity and "coolness" is on the rise.

I'm going to go out on limb here and say, I prefer the new design anyway. Some of the models just sucked, but Unleashed's one (as I'm sure has been mentioned upteen times already) was reaaly good. It wasn't classic, but who cares. It looked good. I'll probably get mullered now....oh joy....

[Mr. Pictures]

Hmm...maybe.

I'd say this one may stick for a while. Considering they've held it for nearly 10 years now and Sonic's popularity and "coolness" is on the rise.

I'm going to go out on limb here and say, I prefer the new design anyway. Some of the models just sucked, but Unleashed's one (as I'm sure has been mentioned upteen times already) was reaaly good. It wasn't classic, but who cares. It looked good. I'll probably get mullered now....oh joy....

Sure, I'm not saying you can't like the design. When it gets right down to it, as a character, Sonic isn't exactly timeless. He'll continue to be redesigned and tweaked because as a character he isn't all too strong.

This post has been edited by Mr. Pictures: 15 May 2010 - 12:23 PM

[Volpino]

Well, considering redesigning, and the past few games...

'06, Sonic saved a whore princess, in Unleashed he turned into a wolf warehog and in Black Knight he had a sword.

So, I think THIS is the direction Sonic is taking.

[Mr. Pictures]

Well, considering redesigning, and the past few games...

'06, Sonic saved a whore princess, in Unleashed he turned into a wolf warehog and in Black Knight he had a sword.

So, I think THIS is the direction Sonic is taking.

What about the Dark Brotherhood and the Twilight Cage?

As sad as it sounds, it doesn't really surprise me that it's coming down to this. I'm not sure what they want to do with Sonic anymore.

[Techokami]

Why June 23?
Is it your birthday?

It's Sonic's birthday. Sonic the Hedgehog for the SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive came out on June 23rd.

[Volpino]

Well, considering redesigning, and the past few games...

'06, Sonic saved a whore princess, in Unleashed he turned into a wolf warehog and in Black Knight he had a sword.

So, I think THIS is the direction Sonic is taking.

What about the Dark Brotherhood and the Twilight Cage?

As sad as it sounds, it doesn't really surprise me that it's coming down to this. I'm not sure what they want to do with Sonic anymore.

Never got that far on DB, but damn, they really are copying Zelda. In all the bad ways. DB was an outright copy of Final Fantasy, and I might add, Sonic doesn't work well in that kind of RPG.

Why June 23?
Is it your birthday?

It's Sonic's birthday. Sonic the Hedgehog for the SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive came out on June 23rd.

Wow, maybe if I'm lucky, they'll release a Tails Adventures 2 on October 16th.

This post has been edited by Volpino: 15 May 2010 - 01:05 PM

[Scartillery]

Well, considering redesigning, and the past few games...

'06, Sonic saved a whore princess, in Unleashed he turned into a wolf warehog and in Black Knight he had a sword.

So, I think THIS is the direction Sonic is taking.

What about the Dark Brotherhood and the Twilight Cage?

As sad as it sounds, it doesn't really surprise me that it's coming down to this. I'm not sure what they want to do with Sonic anymore.

Never got that far on DB, but damn, they really are copying Zelda. In all the bad ways. DB was an outright copy of Final Fantasy, and I might add, Sonic doesn't work well in that kind of RPG.

Why June 23?
Is it your birthday?

It's Sonic's birthday. Sonic the Hedgehog for the SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive came out on June 23rd.

Wow, maybe if I'm lucky, they'll release a Tails Adventures 2 on October 16th.

Wow, that image makes me think: why do us Sonic fans bitch about the newer design, yet Zelda fans don't even mention it. I mean Zelda has a slightly different design for each of his games.
Really, I think we've taken the whole design thing way too far...

Anyways, back to the issue at hand; What do you think Sonic Team are doing? What do you think they'd make? What would you like them to make? etc.

[Mr. Pictures]

What do you think Sonic Team are doing? What do you think they'd make? What would you like them to make? etc.

Are doing? Something ripped-off from Zelda. Personally, I'm not going to wait for the next great Sonic game because I don't think there will be one. The "classics" (Sonic 1 - 3, SCD and S&K) are enough for me, and ROM hacks are alright too.

[Scartillery]

What do you think Sonic Team are doing? What do you think they'd make? What would you like them to make? etc.

Are doing? Something ripped-off from Zelda. Personally, I'm not going to wait for the next great Sonic game because I don't think there will be one. The "classics" (Sonic 1 - 3, SCD and S&K) are enough for me, and ROM hacks are alright too.

Cool.
Personally, with the potential Unleashed had, I'm sure a good Sonic game isn't far away. Unleashed could have been better, had they excluded the Werehog, and used that development time to completely polish the Day stages.
One can't survive off the "classics" forever, but then I guess you do have Sonic 4, if you're interested by it.

Clearly, the issue with Sonic games isn't the idea, its the fact that they forget to polish good parts of the game by adding pointless extras.
I hope to God, that SEGA have been keeping an eye on these forums. A lot of us have some good ideas that they could use.

What can I say, I'm a hopeful kind of guy.

Also, would it be a bad idea, if MediaMolecule bought Sonic Team and licences to Sonic. I'm sure they CAN do physics well.
Also, a level editor in a Sonic game would be badass. Given LBP2, downscaled Game Development engine, you could make entire fangames using it, and submit them to the PSN.

1: There is a slight division about which Link looks best, but it's mostly divided between Toon Link (Wind Waker) and Twilight Princess Link (Older Link), but I think they don't care as much as we do because Zelda's art style has never been as involved with it's appeal as Sonic's

Yes, but why do we care? Honestly, if they had used the "classic" Sonic design in 2006, it wouldn't have changed its reception. the graphics are a key element, the gameplay is a key element, but whether or not Sonic should look "classic" is really just a matter of opinion, and frankly, in terms of design, SEGA really don't care what we think, its thier character.

This post has been edited by Scartillery: 15 May 2010 - 01:52 PM

[Volpino]

Regarding Mm, no, it would not be a good idea to use their engine for Sonic, because it's not a Sonic engine and it works very different from a Sonic engine. Besides, given they did an Unleashed pack and called the stickers that came with it 'unleashed stickers' (If you've ever seen the stickers you'll know why this bothers me) I really don't want them behind Sonic development. If they can't recognize Genesis sprites compared to a NextGen game, I would be terrified to see what they come up with. Besides, their physics engine is fixed on a specific kind of gane to the point using it for anything else would literally break the game.

The entire reason they're making an LBP2 is because their engine is incapable of doing some of the things the fans have asked for, and things they wanted to include themselves. From what I've heard, adding water was already a tremendous task given that water physics didn't, and still don't, work properly to begin with. They had to design their own kind of water, I heard.

[OKei]

If SEGA wants to appeal to kids with their next Sonic game, just give him muscles, a pack of smokes, a giant ass gun, a cool car and camo pants and make all his levels revolve around GTA style gimmicks and they're set.

Man I wish I had time to fucking color this. Maybe tomorrow.

I'm actually amused by that. In fact, as a tongue-and-cheek idea, I like it!

[Introversive]

2: I want Tails Adventures 2, 'nuff said.

Why? Because I want a Sonic game that doesn't involve going from point A to point B. Mario had the Power Stars, Banjo-Kazooie has puzzle pieces, Crash Bandicoot had the gems and Spyro the Dragon has gems and some main collectibles that vary from games, as well as other, lesser known 3-D platformers of the time of Sonic Adventure so why can't Sonic have that? It's not like it would detract from the platforming at all since it's still possible to make a sandbox level system with loops and speed.

I see nothing against a second Tails Adventure, since it seems the best choice if Sega wants to make a subseries with a secondary character. Tails already has two games and one of them (Tails Adventure obviously) was well-liked, so making a Tails Adventure 2 would be a good way to expand the series. I wouldn't mind if they try to expand on Tails Sky Patrol and make it more polished and playable either. Nintendo has made two series based on a secondary Mario character (Wario), and it would be interesting to see what approach Sega would take for it.

However, I don't think that going from point A to point B is one of the main problems with the Sonic games. Aren't the Stars and Shine Sprites from the 3D Mario games essentially the goal points? There's not much of a difference between collecting a Star in 3D Mario and getting to the goal point in a Sonic game. In fact, Super Mario Galaxy has levels in general more linear than 64 and Sunshine. The way you progress through most levels in Galaxy are pretty similar to "Go to the Goal Ring" levels in the Sonic/Shadow parts of Sonic Adventure 2 or Heroes (sans enemies that take forever to kill and the teamwork) as Mario with mini-planets, yet I don't see any major complaints about that for some reason. Even the sandbox levels in it don't feel as much expansive as the levels in 64 and Sunshine.

I'm pretty sure that one of the main reasons that the more recent Sonic games haven't been doing as well is because of development time. There have been Sonic games with pretty unique ideas and mechanics being released once each year. If you had to make a new 3D video game that is innovative and well polished once every year, you probably wouldn't have time to iron out all the creases in any of those. One major reason why Super Mario 64 and Galaxy are well received is because Nintendo has been working on those games for more years than most if not all the 3D Sonics and thus had time to polish the gameplay. If it's a brand new Sonic game that Sonic Team is making and they take their time this time, then the result will probably be excellent.

I have been hoping that somehow for Sonic's twentieth birthday that they would make a huge collection of all the Genesis Sonic games like what has been mentioned in an earlier post. If the Advance Trilogy, Knuckle's Chaotix, and possibly even some of the hacks if the laws don't mess up the chances are included, then that would make for an awesome way to celebrate Sonic becoming 20.