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Lost Graphics in Sonic CD 510 I'll update this topic as I find things

#1 User is offline SegaLoco 

Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:06 PM

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Alright, so as you probably guessed, I'll be finding unused data as I go through Sonic CD 510. Here is some stuff I've found in R11A__.MMD:

Lost jumpy pole? (Like in Sonic Advance)
Posted Image

Lost Ball/Chain/Tube thing (No idea what this is actually)
Posted Image

I also found the lost broken button sprite but that is already known so I won't be posting it again.

If anyone knows what these are please let me know, and again, I'll be updating this list as I go along.

Edit: Oh, and I jacked the Sonic 2 palette for these because there are several palette entries in Sonic CD and I didn't know which to use, I figured Sonic 2 could get close enough.
This post has been edited by SegaLoco: 23 December 2011 - 12:07 PM

#2 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:12 PM

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Both of those are still in the final. They're in palmtree panic past. The second graphic is a swinging platform.

#3 User is offline Andrew75 

Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:46 PM

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keep an eye out for R2 stuff !

#4 User is offline GeneHF 

Posted 23 December 2011 - 01:01 PM

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I wouldn't focus on R2 stuff at all, as it apparently got killed very early on, even before an actual level could be developed.

Naturally, I'd love to be wrong, but it's been years with only two signs of the level's existence.

#5 User is offline Neo 

Posted 23 December 2011 - 02:05 PM

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View PostDark Sonic, on 23 December 2011 - 12:12 PM, said:

Both of those are still in the final. They're in palmtree panic past. The second graphic is a swinging platform.

Posted Image Posted Image

AGAIN TRY, though if you said you found them in 11A (PPZ1 Present) then they're in fact unused there, unless it's customary to have object graphics from various time zones all in the same file.

#6 User is online MainMemory 

Posted 23 December 2011 - 02:53 PM

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It is customary for all time zones to have the same sprite graphics, because they share an object layout (so if you destroy a monitor in the past, it's still destroyed in the present). But, the PC version doesn't have the swinging platform gfx in SCMP11?.CMP, only SCMP12?.CMP.

#7 User is offline SegaLoco 

Posted 23 December 2011 - 02:55 PM

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View PostNeo, on 23 December 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

View PostDark Sonic, on 23 December 2011 - 12:12 PM, said:

Both of those are still in the final. They're in palmtree panic past. The second graphic is a swinging platform.

Posted Image Posted Image

AGAIN TRY, though if you said you found them in 11A (PPZ1 Present) then they're in fact unused there, unless it's customary to have object graphics from various time zones all in the same file.

Thanks so much guys! I appreciate it. Anyway, R11A just has a mixmatch of random graphics from the other Palmtree Panic levels but not all of it. It's weird, it has the seed egg or whatever the thing after the boss is called, it has a lot of stuff from past and future, but it doesn't have any different level graphics or the boss tiles, I wonder if that is how they padded it was sticking in irrelevant art to fill space?

#8 User is offline Hendricks 266 

Posted 23 December 2011 - 09:56 PM

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View PostAndrew75, on 23 December 2011 - 12:46 PM, said:

keep an eye out for R2 stuff !

It does not work like that. There are no R2 MMA files so there is no trace of the level if it ever existed at all.

#9 User is online Mercury 

Posted 24 December 2011 - 01:09 AM

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View PostHendricks 266, on 23 December 2011 - 09:56 PM, said:

View PostAndrew75, on 23 December 2011 - 12:46 PM, said:

keep an eye out for R2 stuff !

It does not work like that. There are no R2 MMA files so there is no trace of the level if it ever existed at all.

Not necessarily... in the final, some level MMDs were built from others, meaning there's bits of WW in SS and MM, IIRC. While very unlikely, some of R2 could still be present here and there.

#10 User is offline SegaLoco 

Posted 25 December 2011 - 07:40 PM

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View PostMercury, on 24 December 2011 - 01:09 AM, said:

View PostHendricks 266, on 23 December 2011 - 09:56 PM, said:

View PostAndrew75, on 23 December 2011 - 12:46 PM, said:

keep an eye out for R2 stuff !

It does not work like that. There are no R2 MMA files so there is no trace of the level if it ever existed at all.

Not necessarily... in the final, some level MMDs were built from others, meaning there's bits of WW in SS and MM, IIRC. While very unlikely, some of R2 could still be present here and there.

R2 is a holdover from the game being based on Sonic 1. Stop obsessing over it people. Sonic CD was built from Sonic 1

Green Hill Zone -> Palmtree Panic Zone
Marble Zone -> ?
Spring Yard Zone -> Collision Chaos Zone
Labryinth Zone -> Tidal Tempest Zone
Starlight Zone -> Stardust Speedway Zone
Scrap Brain Zone -> Metallic Madness Zone

Neither of the remaining zones share much of anything with Marble Zone. The first build of Sonic CD was likely just Sonic 1 for Sega CD. They decided so early on that there would be enough brick/ruins style graphics in Tidal Tempest to not even worry about converting Marble Zone too, so they just saved a few graphic stylings for pillars in Tidal Tempest (and if you remember, the secret room in Wacky Workbench) and then chucked everything labeled R2 and instead of going through all the trouble to rename each level project with it's multiple acts and timezones down one number to fill the void, they figured nobody would go so far to overanalyze the files in the iso and just enjoy their nice video game. (I suspect Wacky Workbench was either designed from the ground up as it's own level independent of any Sonic 1 influence after they decided it would actually be it's own game, not CD-Sonic The Hedgehog, or it also draws from Scrap Brain Zone.) Anyway, don't obsess over R2, there is nothing at ALL in the code so far that disproves what I've just said. There are two files (DISP0_.MMD and DISP1_.MMD) but I assume they have to do with debugging with the Cross Products Mega CD units (if anyone knows of any released debug builds of Sega CD games let me know) There are absolutely no references to anything R2 anywhere in the code, not in any of the file loading segments, in fact if I remember correctly there isn't even enough empty space left in the level selection table (in level select or the internal code) to squeeze in a whole set of zones.

#11 User is offline Sik 

Posted 25 December 2011 - 09:19 PM

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View PostSegaLoco, on 25 December 2011 - 07:40 PM, said:

There are two files (DISP0_.MMD and DISP1_.MMD) but I assume they have to do with debugging with the Cross Products Mega CD units
For some reason I'm more interested in that than in R2... though going by the filenames I doubt they had to do anything with debugging, unless "DISP" means "DISPLAY" and it displays debugging values, but really, "display" could stand for anything.

#12 User is offline SteelBrush 

Posted 25 December 2011 - 09:23 PM

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Has anyone ever considered that Marble Zone became Quartz Quadrant Zone? They are both set underground and feature falling blocks.

#13 User is offline Master Emerald 

Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:34 PM

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View PostSegaLoco, on 25 December 2011 - 07:40 PM, said:

View PostMercury, on 24 December 2011 - 01:09 AM, said:

View PostHendricks 266, on 23 December 2011 - 09:56 PM, said:

View PostAndrew75, on 23 December 2011 - 12:46 PM, said:

keep an eye out for R2 stuff !

It does not work like that. There are no R2 MMA files so there is no trace of the level if it ever existed at all.

Not necessarily... in the final, some level MMDs were built from others, meaning there's bits of WW in SS and MM, IIRC. While very unlikely, some of R2 could still be present here and there.

R2 is a holdover from the game being based on Sonic 1. Stop obsessing over it people. Sonic CD was built from Sonic 1

Green Hill Zone -> Palmtree Panic Zone
Marble Zone -> ?
Spring Yard Zone -> Collision Chaos Zone
Labryinth Zone -> Tidal Tempest Zone
Starlight Zone -> Stardust Speedway Zone
Scrap Brain Zone -> Metallic Madness Zone

Neither of the remaining zones share much of anything with Marble Zone. The first build of Sonic CD was likely just Sonic 1 for Sega CD. They decided so early on that there would be enough brick/ruins style graphics in Tidal Tempest to not even worry about converting Marble Zone too, so they just saved a few graphic stylings for pillars in Tidal Tempest (and if you remember, the secret room in Wacky Workbench) and then chucked everything labeled R2 and instead of going through all the trouble to rename each level project with it's multiple acts and timezones down one number to fill the void, they figured nobody would go so far to overanalyze the files in the iso and just enjoy their nice video game. (I suspect Wacky Workbench was either designed from the ground up as it's own level independent of any Sonic 1 influence after they decided it would actually be it's own game, not CD-Sonic The Hedgehog, or it also draws from Scrap Brain Zone.) Anyway, don't obsess over R2, there is nothing at ALL in the code so far that disproves what I've just said. There are two files (DISP0_.MMD and DISP1_.MMD) but I assume they have to do with debugging with the Cross Products Mega CD units (if anyone knows of any released debug builds of Sega CD games let me know) There are absolutely no references to anything R2 anywhere in the code, not in any of the file loading segments, in fact if I remember correctly there isn't even enough empty space left in the level selection table (in level select or the internal code) to squeeze in a whole set of zones.


I made a topic about this, sometime ago.

#14 User is offline Sik 

Posted 26 December 2011 - 01:49 PM

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Wasn't it mentioned once that they scrapped R2 simply because it wasn't good enough? Maybe even this is overthinking =P

#15 User is offline David The Lurker 

Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:46 PM

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View PostSegaLoco, on 25 December 2011 - 07:40 PM, said:

R2 is a holdover from the game being based on Sonic 1. Stop obsessing over it people. Sonic CD was built from Sonic 1


View PostThe Taxman, on 13 December 2011 - 05:12 AM, said:

I'm really glad Hoshino-san was able to share some of these sketches because you can see quite a few things from the R2 stage which was dropped during development. There's a few enemies (the antlion, worm and other thing), the wheel boss and even the rainbow sketch!


EDIT: Oh also

View PostSik, on 26 December 2011 - 01:49 PM, said:

Wasn't it mentioned once that they scrapped R2 simply because it wasn't good enough? Maybe even this is overthinking =P


http://www.randomson...terviews/jt.htm

Quote

>2) In Sonic CD, while porting it, were you ever aware, or did you ever hear
>anything of a possible \R2 directory? The current level structure jumps from
>R1 to R3, and R2, a long-lost missing level, is, of course, not there.

Kakuta-san explained to me the manner in which the games was developed: each level was "owned" (coded and debugged) by a single engineer, so there was a separate engineer for each level (they were in charge of all three "phases" of the level, "past", "present", and "future"). These engineers worked entirely in parallel and independently. Kakuta-san did the "framework" code to "hold all the levels together". He said the original (Genesis version) of the game was done the same way. I asked about the R2 level. Although not explicitly stated, my impression from him is that the designer of level R2 didn't do a very good job, so they left it out of the final product. It was never shipped in any form.


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