don't click here

Sonic 4: Episode 2 Discussion

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Chimpo, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    "Indefinately put on hiatus", then.
     
  2. dsrb

    dsrb

    Member
    3,149
    0
    16
    Is the implication that pelikan13 might have been hired by Sega to provide graphics for S4EII? Or just that Sega asked him to give up before aping his graphics?

    The only significant similarity I see is the grass in the first zone, but it's not exactly a completely original idea that was unlikely to have been stumbled upon by at least two people. The only other connection that can be made is that they both use 3D graphics on a 2D plane—a style descended from the classic Zones of Generations, not from any other game that happens to use 3D.

    Of course, we can wonder whether Sega took notes from SFR, especially since many people here clamoured for them to do so, but all of this is nothing but speculation.
     
  3. Ritz

    Ritz

    Subhedgehog Member
    4,083
    107
    43
    It was remarkably easy! I don't see anyone trying to contest my criticisms here. It's a more cohesive game and that's the only thing it has going for it. Cobbling together a visually consistent product is dead simple when there's a complete lack of variety.

    Only four people are actively rebuking the game by my count. That's a huge chunk?
     
  4. Shade Vortex

    Shade Vortex

    The Black Vortex Member
    567
    40
    28
    USA, WA.
    Twitch Streams
    I suppose I was exaggerating, but the point stands. -Some- people have higher standards than the world's finest food critics. But regardless,, I'm going to just ignore the posts of the incredibly obnoxious people who act like Kogen and Andrew were/are acting.

    Anyways, it seems that thanks to Woun, he has gone ahead and begun translating the Famitsu article on S4E2 (I think into Russian, though), and some other people at Sonic Stadium have seemingly divulged the first stage's name as Sylvania Castle Zone. If that's true, at least they're using the Latin word for "Forest land" instead of saying Forest Castle Zone.

    Apparently the ice stage is White something. White Carnival Zone, I'm guessing?
     
  5. Ritz

    Ritz

    Subhedgehog Member
    4,083
    107
    43
    So you aren't actually able to approach the subject without grandstanding. That's very funny!

    Also I'd be half-satisfied if just one person would even acknowledge that they're using the same tree in the middle ground for both zones and that this isn't an acceptable thing. Anyone?
     
  6. Shade Vortex

    Shade Vortex

    The Black Vortex Member
    567
    40
    28
    USA, WA.
    Twitch Streams
    I'm just going to ignore the blatant instigation Ritz is doing, and discuss the important, relevant subject at hand.

    And honestly, I would like to believe the "same tree" thing was intentional from a transitional standpoint, so you can tell that the two levels are "connected' and that you're actually moving from locations that are nearby eachother. Either that, or it was lazily done for budgeting reasons.
     
  7. synchronizer

    synchronizer

    Member
    2,191
    92
    28
    Why does everyone make the comparison between the graphics styles of Sonic Fan Remix and Sonic 4 Episode II? That of Fan Remix is a lot more realistic and complex than that of Ep II, which seems to rely upon 2d and 3d objects used in conjunction. The games are quite dissimilar, and the grass is simply a coincidence. I believe it was Sega's intention to model each episode based upon its classic numerical counterpart, Sonic 2, and Sonic Fan Remix does the same. This is the only true similarity that one such as myself can see. Can everyone recall when people hoped that Sega was using Taxman's engine, or that Sega could be "stealing" his work. Most people apparently have shifted their focus to the theft of Sonic Fan Remix.

    All in all, I'm more interested in the information we've been given, namely the screens. The graphics have indeed improved, at least in my eyes, but we can not judge the physics. I can remember seeing someone posting an image of Sonic jumping, and assuming that it had more momentum: baseless speculation. I will happily wait until we get the first glimpse of Sonic 4 Episode II in motion, and hear its soundtrack. In Episode 1's case, the reaction to the physics contained laughter and incredulity. Perhaps this time we'll have a pleasant surprise. Otherwise, everyone could take up a new hobby, such as sewing or something more useful.
     
  8. Machenstein

    Machenstein

    Member
    830
    0
    0
    Or we could just hack Sonic Advance 1, remove all instances of the words "Sonic Advance" with "Sonic 4", and color the eyes of the characters black.
     
  9. synchronizer

    synchronizer

    Member
    2,191
    92
    28
    Perfect plan isn't it?

    Anyway, the soundtrack is what I'm interested in. Sonic 4 Episode 1's music is still better than that of Sonic Chronicles (uugghkskghsKG), but hopefully there will be a little more variety when it comes to the instrumentation, and longer durations of time for each track.
     
  10. Kogen

    Kogen

    Derp Banned
    628
    0
    0
    Bouvet Island
    Last Party on the Moon
    Sorry Mac, but the formula is sinkin'. Colours sold less than Unleashed, and Generations sold less than Colours. If they keep it up the next game should not even pass 2 million sales at a semi-budget price.

    'Modern' Sonic is essentially ARC at this moment. It might be true that he refined himself in many ways, but he is still fundamentally retarded at his core. It may pain you to throw him away, but if this glass factory is ever going to keep up with the competition, he gotta go.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfS0Gvp6f_I[/youtube]

    Despite the poop-fest that is Sonic 4, at least there is an attempt at changing the gameplay. Sonic 4 e1 raped it and made it worse, but here - just perhaps! - the game might be something similar to fun. Classic Sonic was sort of fun, so they are kind-of capable with that.

    Hahaha little boy. Run, run away! And NEVER return! You cannot win here. You lost, tactical withdrawal initiated.
     
  11. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun

    OVER THE TOP TECHNO-BLAST Member
    1,626
    193
    43
    Buffalo, NY, USA
    The Water

    As I said before, I would find it acceptable only if it was part of a stage transitional-effect. Even if that that isn't the case and they were being lazy, this is such an inconsequential, minor and insignificant complaint to have when looking at the entire game! Surely you understand that something this innocuous and (and not always very visible) bears such little importance compared to the more important and prevalent problems of the game's art in the end. In other words, it may be a problem, but it's not the huge issue that its being made out to be, at all. I'm surprised that not many people complained about the 2D foreground textures that look a little awkward in the screenshot.
     
  12. Shade Vortex

    Shade Vortex

    The Black Vortex Member
    567
    40
    28
    USA, WA.
    Twitch Streams
    Ah, thanks for the correction on the Ice Stage's name. Sorry, didn't read the previous pages of the topic before posting that.

    Those are pretty interesting stage names, at the very least! But that's all I've got to say until the 23rd, since I already talked about the graphics, badniks and stages.
     
  13. SteelBrush

    SteelBrush

    603e Member
    1,194
    0
    0
    the home of spotted dick, Devon
    Tramadol, Tamazepam and finding a reason to exist.
    Reusing a tree may seem inconsequential but it indicates something about the developers attitude towards their product.
     
  14. Tyty

    Tyty

    KNUXEDO KAMEN Member
    106
    0
    16
    ↑ & ↓ & ↻
    That's because it -is- inconsequential. Game companies have been doing this for YEARS and STILL do. Art assets take time to make, if they ever want to make a game on schedule, they'll reuse assets whenever they can get away with it.

    Why do you think lots of FPSes have large groups of enemies that look the same? Because then they don't have to individually make each one.

    Hell, plenty of Sonic games have reused assets between stages before. This is nothing new to the series even.
     
  15. Guess Who

    Guess Who

    It's a miracle! Oldbie
    4,296
    63
    28
    Oregon
    lol
    Fucking lazy developers think they can just take Emerald Hill's tiles and color them blue and call it a new level. Sonic 2 is going to be shit.
     
  16. Kogen

    Kogen

    Derp Banned
    628
    0
    0
    Bouvet Island
    Last Party on the Moon
    Opposing inferior Americans for the glory of Nippon > using unique art
     
  17. Metal Man88

    Metal Man88

    Time Traveller Oldbie
    2,137
    0
    0
    And lo and behold, the DEVIL TREE appeared, and the most extreme of Sonic fans were apopletic in their hatred. For this reused tree was an act of war, the signal that all games now and forever would suck, and so their only remaining task was to mourn the death of the Sonic franchise, for this reused tree indicated the end of any potential goodness.

    Yet it became confusing as to why, having determined the game and all other games like it would interminably suck, they continued to post about it, since clearly background tree #356 billion being reused had already sealed its fate, and there was no more discussion to be had—only repetition about the devil tree and it's vile powers of Sonic gameplay destruction.

    As for those of us who do not expect Sonic games to possess arboreal perfection with every tree different in every stage, it's kind of hard to tell whether it will be another mundane disappointment or something else entirely from, well, you guessed it, a bunch of screenshots.

    Though I'm quite sure the DEVIL TREE will somehow ruin everything. It should be known as the TRUE villain of the franchise, and not, say, the bad gameplay programming decisions or horribly ear-rending electronic cat death music that made the first episode a pretty mediocre experience. :p
     
  18. Ritz

    Ritz

    Subhedgehog Member
    4,083
    107
    43
    That you're still clinging to the idea that this can be passed off as a transitional effect is seriously pushing me to say some things that aren't likely to go unpunished in a Shark Year thread! A stage transition can be accomplished with a 3 second cutscene, or a handful of tiles from the previous stage that immediately segue into new art assets, right? What you're suggesting here is that we needed a transition spanning 6 entire acts because we wouldn't have gotten the fucking idea otherwise. And I guess it was totally necessary that they only use one tree, because multiple trees would've confused us, right? I think there's a base misunderstanding here: I'm not talking about using the same species of evergreen in two separate zones, I'm saying that they drew one tree and Photoshopped iterations. This isn't minor, this is one asset taking up a massive chunk of the backgrounds. Snow stage could've gotten away with it because there's actually quite a lot of foreground detail obscuring the forest. The upper half of ARZ doesn't have anything to hide behind, and it's ugly. Bad for one stage, unacceptable for two.

    Honestly, I'm really not all that concerned about it- they could've used multiple trees and it wouldn't have made either stage look appealing when considered as a whole. But when I can't otherwise convince everyone to see what I'm seeing here, I thought it'd be profitable to latch onto an objectively poor design decision and see how logically you all dealt with that! I mean, it seems everyone's only gripe with E1's art was the lack of polish and effort, and what we're discussing here is a clear-cut lack of polish and effort. The game has been in development for well over a year now, they're only doing 4 zones, and they're still cutting corners? Even if style and polish don't concern you, you should still be up in arms over the lack stage variety. 50% of the game is now coniferous forest. 25% of that is shoddy remake. They're both water stages.

    Rusty, bro, this post was kinda retarded! First, the tree isn't even the issue, I just explained that. Second, every Sonic game that ever went criticized for its appearance has always been met with the argument that screenshots weren't enough to judge the art. Not once has it ever held water. 2 screens are enough, I've got at least 6 for each zone here. Third, why are you trying to make gameplay an issue here? I wasn't, I don't need screenshots or video to know this is going to suck. I'm not even concerned about that. The art style is what hooked me on this franchise to begin with and it's all I really watch these games for. This is launch day for me and I'm laying it down.

    You people have relapsed something fierce and the illness is now inoperable. I fought hard to set you guys straight over the years, but there's nothing left to be done! I should've left when Chimpo did!
     
  19. Candescence

    Candescence

    Member
    2,023
    21
    18
    Sydney, Australia
    3D Indie Stuff
    Well, it's mostly bits of all of these, honestly (and I'm speaking mostly in respect to Trine 2, not the original game, Trine is damn pretty, yes, but the sequel is godly). Trine 2 has an insane amount of visual detail in its levels without hindering the gameplay in any manner (hell, in some respects it enhances it, more on that in a second), the levels are lovingly crafted, the visual direction is saturated and produces stunning Scenery Porn, and there's plenty of detail in the backgrounds as well, not just the foreground. I'm honestly content to say that Trine 2 looks better than even Generations does. And keep in mind that Trine 2 is a downloadable indie game.

    In comparison, Episode 2 looks barren, bland, not very colourful and, once I got the fact that it's much better-looking than its predecessor (mind you, that's not saying much), I realized it's not very interesting to look at.
    Partly, as I said above. I know Sega/DIMPs COULD put in that kind of effort to Sonic 4's visuals, but I honestly doubt they'd bother. :(
     
  20. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

    A "Community Enigma"? Oldbie
    1,467
    11
    18
    I for one beg to disagree; Trine 2 has that problem where sometimes, it's difficult to tell what's in the foreground or the background. It's a gorgeous game, no doubt, but it's literally an assault of densely-compacted detail and hyper-saturated colors. Levels are built as 3D environments that you move through on a 2D plane.

    [​IMG]

    Trine 2 is also a very, very slow game. Characters move at what can best be described as "Mario's walking speed". The camera frequently gets locked to an X or Y axis or frames areas as individual screens rather than free-scrolling worlds. This in itself is very important, because it explains why Trine 2 is so detailed. For starters, it means you have plenty of time to process the environment - if it's difficult to tell where the foreground ends and the background begins, just stand around and look at it for a second or two. It also allows you to appreciate that detail; you spend a lot of time looking at each individual area. It also matters as far as things like data streaming is concerned - the slower the characters move, the more time the game engine has to load in new assets for what's coming up next.

    Sonic games do not typically have this luxury. You can even see it in something like Sonic GDK - load up one UDK's Unreal Tournament 3 maps and pay attention to the framerate. The faster you move, the choppier things get, because those maps were not designed to support characters that move that quickly (at least, not as far as my system is concerned, and I typically get 60fps at "normal" traversal speeds).

    There's more to good graphics than just endlessly heaping detail in to a scene. If S4E2 looked like Trine 2 you'd be constantly lost as to what the fuck you were even standing on at any given time. You'd also be clipping through - or getting caught on - every stray errant piece of level detail (something that also happens in Trine 2, but since it's not a fast game, it doesn't matter as much).

    S4E2 looks fine.