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New info on MJ involvement?

#1 User is offline serpx 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 10:35 AM

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Clarification on Michael Jackson's involvement from Gametrailers

Since apparently they did their own research, versus research done here previously, I'm assuming this is new which is why I'm posting it. If not, my apologizes. I know this has been a major topic in the community for years, like Sonic X-Treme, so I love seeing it resurface.

#2 User is offline TimmiT 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:09 AM

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Haven't watched the full video yet, but it's nice to see them link to our wiki and also QJIMBO's video.

#3 User is offline Afro Thunder 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 12:45 PM

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So basically, the "unnamed source" pretty much confirms what Brad Buxer had previously said: Michael Jackson left due to quality issues. While it's nice to have another source to back that claim up, I still can't help but find that iffy, at best. There still gotta be something up with the music though if Brad Buxer is still refusing to openly comment on the whole thing.... I mean, isn't 20 years more then enough time to come out and outright say "MJ did this and that"?

So while we may have another source for why he left, we still don't know what songs are confirmed to have been composed by MJ in game, aside from the obvious.

#4 User is offline OKei 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 12:51 PM

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This "mystery" source that gave some VERY specific details of Jackson's involvement including the specific tracks he composed... I wonder who he is? I wonder why didn't GT talk to Naka-san about this subject, even after Hector's testimony.

This is by far, Pop Fiction's most intriguing episode. I hope they (or anyone else) don't stop researching this particular subject, I still think there's more to learn about MJ's involvement in this game.
This post has been edited by OKei: 04 October 2013 - 12:53 PM

#5 User is offline Afro Thunder 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 01:05 PM

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I don't think they could research it more if they wanted to. If I remember correctly, Cirocco Jones said there was a lawsuit over the tracks concerning royalties, plus Sega would likely have a whole new headache in the form of the Jackson Estate if they found out about MJ's involvement with the game (I think the latter is also the reason why Sega decided not to port Moonwalker to the Wii's Virtual Console back in '09).

Also, I'm certain somebody asked Yuji Naka about MJ not long after Qjimbo made his documentary (pretty sure it's in the Sonic Retro archives somewhere) and he deflected it, leaving them with no info.

#6 User is offline GeneHF 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 01:08 PM

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No one will speak of it because of ongoing legal stances. It's a murky situation to say the least (and largely why Sonic 3 doesn't get full representation at times.)

Do note that both of Sonic 3's Generations levels were from Sonic and Knuckles, and many raised an eyebrow to Mushroom Hill.

Though, I imagine the top zones were something like Sky Sanctuary, Ice Cap, and Flying Battery.

#7 User is offline Afro Thunder 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 01:21 PM

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View PostGeneHF, on 04 October 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Do note that both of Sonic 3's Generations levels were from Sonic and Knuckles, and many raised an eyebrow to Mushroom Hill.


Didn't some of Sonic 3's music make it into Generations as alternate stage music, though?

#8 User is offline Meat Miracle 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 01:33 PM

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View PostGeneHF, on 04 October 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

No one will speak of it because of ongoing legal stances. It's a murky situation to say the least (and largely why Sonic 3 doesn't get full representation at times.)

Do note that both of Sonic 3's Generations levels were from Sonic and Knuckles, and many raised an eyebrow to Mushroom Hill.

Though, I imagine the top zones were something like Sky Sanctuary, Ice Cap, and Flying Battery.


All tunes of S&K were already in Sonic 3, except for a few short jingles (knuckles theme, title, extra life, most of them by Howard Drossin).

#9 User is offline Shadix 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 01:33 PM

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View PostOKei, on 04 October 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

This "mystery" source that gave some VERY specific details of Jackson's involvement including the specific tracks he composed... I wonder who he is? I wonder why didn't GT talk to Naka-san about this subject, even after Hector's testimony.

This is by far, Pop Fiction's most intriguing episode. I hope they (or anyone else) don't stop researching this particular subject, I still think there's more to learn about MJ's involvement in this game.


I doubt it was Naka if thats what you are thinking. Naka was very opposed to giving details about the music of Sonic 3 in other interviews where the question had been brought up.

That said, this made me squee all over the place to see new details on this subject. :3

Kinda wish there was concrete citeable information though about the fact that Howard Drossin's soundtrack was for the most part not used in the game despite him composing new tracks. Its interesting with this alternative explanation because at both SAGE and his MAGfest 7 panel he confirmed that he was brought onto Sonic 3 when Michael Jackson was cut, reinforcing Roger Hector's story.

Its totally possible that Hector was operating independently of the development team like the inside source mentioned and they weren't on the same page communication-wise, possibly due to language barriers? I could see in this case that perhaps Hector had no idea that Michael Jackson had left the project on his own merit due to the sound quality issue, was told about the scandal, commissioned Howard to write new music, and then after the music was submitted it wasn't used because it was all a huge misunderstanding.

These sort of communication mishaps are not uncommon.
This post has been edited by Shadix: 04 October 2013 - 01:38 PM

#10 User is offline Spanner 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 01:37 PM

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View PostGeneHF, on 04 October 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

No one will speak of it because of ongoing legal stances. It's a murky situation to say the least (and largely why Sonic 3 doesn't get full representation at times.)

Do note that both of Sonic 3's Generations levels were from Sonic and Knuckles, and many raised an eyebrow to Mushroom Hill.

Though, I imagine the top zones were something like Sky Sanctuary, Ice Cap, and Flying Battery.

Yet do remember the 2.5D interpretation video of Mushroom Hill which most likely secured the level for Generations...even if it was only the 3DS version.


#11 User is offline Shade 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 03:41 PM

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Whoa, I'm mentioned by name in an episode of Pop Fiction. Awesome! Nice to be recognized for your accomplishments. :)

#12 User is offline The KKM 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:13 PM

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Yeah, I figure the best way to interpret both events without assuming Roger's lying to protect the sound chip would be that MJ left of his own accord, but that fact wasn't spread around- and thus instead many on the team assumed it was because of the scandals.

Great episode, though. I had never watched this show- are other episodes as good? They even list sources and links, that's great.

#13 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:26 PM

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What? Black or White was composed for Sonic 3 as well? I'm speechless. :O EDIT: Oops, it wasn't!

I didn't know of these Pop Culture guys before, but... they rule.


EDIT: My guess is that Black or White was the original title theme.
This post has been edited by ICEknight: 04 October 2013 - 06:14 PM

#14 User is offline TimmiT 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:32 PM

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View PostThe KKM, on 04 October 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

Yeah, I figure the best way to interpret both events without assuming Roger's lying to protect the sound chip would be that MJ left of his own accord, but that fact wasn't spread around- and thus instead many on the team assumed it was because of the scandals.

Great episode, though. I had never watched this show- are other episodes as good? They even list sources and links, that's great.

Pop Fiction is generally pretty good, this was one of their longer episodes as well. Think of it as some sort of Mythbusters for videogames, this episode being a bit different from normal as usually they try to see if a "gaming myth" is actually in a game by trying to access it without cheats. And even if you already know about the "gaming myth", they still go into detail of where it originated from and other details and they try to contact people involved (like they did in this episode).

Older episodes don't list sources and links though.


This post has been edited by TimmiT: 04 October 2013 - 05:39 PM

#15 User is offline Captain L 

Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:54 PM

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Great episode, but I do have to question how the problem was the Genesis sound chip was the issue with Jackson, when his name was prominent in the credits of Moonwalker. I would think that he had a problem, he would have voiced it back then.

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