[Mester Keel98]

So, insta-shielding into him is no longer dangerous now?

[flamewing]

Mester Keel98, on 13 January 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

So, insta-shielding into him is no longer dangerous now?

Correct. Although I must say I never had problems insta-shielding from below (as in, gain momentum, jump, insta-shield, hit from front about claw-high, bounce back safely into the ground), only from higher up (jumping and insta-shielding above the claw, near the head).

[E-122-Psi]

flamewing, on 31 December 2011 - 04:24 PM, said:

Because you asked:

Amy courtesy of E-122-Psi. I still have to do the ending palettes and pixel art, but Amy works on SCZ and WFZ (all the way in both levels). The Tornado still shares the same palette as Sonic, Tails and Knuckles, but Amy doesn't; if you count, the players + the Tornado have 17 colors (counting neither transparency nor the green eyes and socks).

I left a clue in the image for those wondering how I do it. I guess anyone that can find the clue can probably guess how I am doing it anyway; but it is good to examine the clue more thoroughly in this case, for it has a certain element of bragging -- if you can understand it

Woah, how did I miss this? So this is what you were using it for. Glad it came in handy. I have ending sprites of Amy in the plane if you want (made them for Tails' ending in S2 Amy).

[RGamer2009]

flamewing, on 13 January 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

flamewing, on 25 July 2011 - 02:38 PM, said:

RGamer2009, on 25 July 2011 - 01:06 PM, said:

He must be referring to that glitch/bug when you hit the final Death Egg boss, you have a chance of going straight through him and dieing on his arm instead of rebounding, which is what should happen.

It has been around since Sonic 2's release.

You mean the fact that the Egg Mecha has two objects with independent collision hitboxes, either of which can be used to cause damage to the mecha (but not both at the same time) and, after rebounding from hitting on the head [torso], you can hit the torso [head] and rebound again, falling into the arms? If so, I guess I can look and see if it is fixable.

I was taking a look at the Eggrobo code for other reasons, and found out what caused this bug: the only case where it happens is when you hit the torso first, then rebounded onto the head, as hitting the head clears the collision from the torso. As it turns out, it was trivial to fix; next revision won't have this bug.

Wait, you mean the bug we thought was unfixable has finally been FIXED?!

Your amazing flamewing. Absolutely amazing.

[Irixion]

RGamer2009, on 14 January 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

flamewing, on 13 January 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

flamewing, on 25 July 2011 - 02:38 PM, said:

RGamer2009, on 25 July 2011 - 01:06 PM, said:

He must be referring to that glitch/bug when you hit the final Death Egg boss, you have a chance of going straight through him and dieing on his arm instead of rebounding, which is what should happen.

It has been around since Sonic 2's release.

You mean the fact that the Egg Mecha has two objects with independent collision hitboxes, either of which can be used to cause damage to the mecha (but not both at the same time) and, after rebounding from hitting on the head [torso], you can hit the torso [head] and rebound again, falling into the arms? If so, I guess I can look and see if it is fixable.

I was taking a look at the Eggrobo code for other reasons, and found out what caused this bug: the only case where it happens is when you hit the torso first, then rebounded onto the head, as hitting the head clears the collision from the torso. As it turns out, it was trivial to fix; next revision won't have this bug.

Wait, you mean the bug we thought was unfixable has finally been FIXED?!

Your amazing flamewing. Absolutely amazing.

This is exciting! :O I can't wait to see how the boss plays without the bug. Are you going to give us a hint on how to fix it ourselves? :P

[Jami393]

I've just played the hack, and I really liked it, I'd to say Flamewing, you've really done a good job on it. Also I remember playing an early version to it and I didn't enjoy it as much, but now it really is good. Especially the ending with Amy Rose.

[KingofHarts]

Flamewing! You finally fixed the Death Egg boss... and BTW I've all but given up on a bug list. By the time I come back, revision h is out... Either you're too fast for me, or I'm too slow. Haven't had time to play much...
Regardless, I'll still report anything I can see here on the topic... and good to see how much this hack has progressed.

BTW on the Death Egg boss... aside from the obvious one that you already fixed.... There is a glitch that occurs with the characters running to the exit after beating the boss. Sonic always outruns the others... by far. Play through the zone with all 3 characters and see for yourself... If I can recall, it usually happens when Sonic is not the leader... any chance you can fix this??? Having them run together, or perhaps an image of Sonic dashing, with Tails and Knuckles holding on for dear life to his hands would work.

[Dark Sonic]

I've mentioned this before but what's the reason why Knuckles' sign post background is red? You mentioned palette limitations, but Knuckles's socks are green. Don't the signposts and the characters use the same palette? Same applies for the end of act text (The Knuckles text looks strange in Sonic & Tails colors)

[Neo]

Dark Sonic, on 14 January 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

I've mentioned this before but what's the reason why Knuckles' sign post background is red? You mentioned palette limitations, but Knuckles's socks are green. Don't the signposts and the characters use the same palette? Same applies for the end of act text (The Knuckles text looks strange in Sonic & Tails colors)

I think I can field this one. Flamewing split the green color into another palette line and uses special sprite overlaying to place Knuckles' socks over the rest of his body. This is justifiable because the green is scarcely used, so it's a prime candidate for axing off of the character palette which must now cover three characters -- 3 blues + 2 oranges + 3 reds (+ 2 tans) -- as well assorted shoes, gloves and other knickknacks such as eyes -- 2 reds + black + white + at least 2 shades of gray -- all of which adds up to 16 which is already over the limit of 15 colors per palette line (plus transparency), also explaining why one of the blues doubles as a shade of gray. Not the solution I would take, but it's the only way to have Super Knuckles on the screen and not have everything else red glow too (though Super Tails in S3&K caused Eggman to experience this exact side-effect).

[Dark Sonic]

Oh ok that makes sense. Still red on red looks kinda odd. Maybe make the signpost background gray or black, or even orange or blue or something.

[The Shad]

So yeah, trying to play Multi-Player on this isn't too thrilling when one player goes flying off and is hardly used. Is there anyway to like.. Lock players 2/3 to player 1's screen or a way to make it an option or something?

[flamewing]

Neo, on 14 January 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

I think I can field this one. Flamewing split the green color into another palette line and uses special sprite overlaying to place Knuckles' socks over the rest of his body. This is justifiable because the green is scarcely used, so it's a prime candidate for axing off of the character palette which must now cover three characters -- 3 blues + 2 oranges + 3 reds (+ 2 tans) -- as well assorted shoes, gloves and other knickknacks such as eyes -- 2 reds + black + white + at least 2 shades of gray -- all of which adds up to 16 which is already over the limit of 15 colors per palette line (plus transparency), also explaining why one of the blues doubles as a shade of gray. Not the solution I would take, but it's the only way to have Super Knuckles on the screen and not have everything else red glow too (though Super Tails in S3&K caused Eggman to experience this exact side-effect).

Spot on. FYI, right up until recently, Knuckles' art was actually doubled up as he had two reds only -- one version for normal Knuckles, with the shoe's dark red doubling up as his dark red, and one version for Super with his middle red doubling as his dark red so he could flash convincingly. But I changed a few things in the art files (including moving some objects to another palette line because it was possible), so I managed to free another color which, while I could have used for the green, I preferred to use for the red.

And the signposts will all change background color in the next revision so they are more consistent (and have a consistent color which does not flash, for teams Super and Hyper).

[The Growler]

KingofHarts, on 14 January 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

BTW on the Death Egg boss... aside from the obvious one that you already fixed.... There is a glitch that occurs with the characters running to the exit after beating the boss. Sonic always outruns the others... by far. Play through the zone with all 3 characters and see for yourself... If I can recall, it usually happens when Sonic is not the leader... any chance you can fix this??? Having them run together, or perhaps an image of Sonic dashing, with Tails and Knuckles holding on for dear life to his hands would work.

I thought that was done on purpose, purely because Sonic's supposed to be faster than anyone else (and perhaps gameplay-wise, it would be useful to have a faster character for those who want to do a speedrun - on/for the straight sections... but I could also be looking too much into this :p)?

This post has been edited by The Growler: 16 January 2012 - 10:26 AM

[KingofHarts]

The Growler, on 16 January 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

KingofHarts, on 14 January 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

BTW on the Death Egg boss... aside from the obvious one that you already fixed.... There is a glitch that occurs with the characters running to the exit after beating the boss. Sonic always outruns the others... by far. Play through the zone with all 3 characters and see for yourself... If I can recall, it usually happens when Sonic is not the leader... any chance you can fix this??? Having them run together, or perhaps an image of Sonic dashing, with Tails and Knuckles holding on for dear life to his hands would work.

I thought that was done on purpose, purely because Sonic's supposed to be faster than anyone else (and perhaps gameplay-wise, it would be useful to have a faster character for those who want to do a speedrun - on/for the straight sections... but I could also be looking too much into this :p)?

You're not looking too much into it... Sonic is indeed modded to be faster than the others... BUT that's not the point... It's the closing scene to the game with the heroes escaping the exploding Death Egg... It makes 0 sense for Sonic to take off and leave his friends behind. Now... maybe if you put a "KingofHarts" character with Tails and Knuckles... absolutely it fits perfect, those annoying fuckers could eat my dust... LOL anyway, As I previously mentioned, it would make more sense for Sonic to run along with them, or maybe grab them by the hands and go into a dashing animation and take off.... I think that would be a perfect escape scene, and would fit nicely... I'd make a mockup of this myself if I knew how to get the damn pic uploaded directly to Retro... instead of embedding a URL from another site...

[flamewing]

E-122-Psi, on 14 January 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Woah, how did I miss this? So this is what you were using it for. Glad it came in handy. I have ending sprites of Amy in the plane if you want (made them for Tails' ending in S2 Amy).

Oh, I missed this post. I believe I had told you I was using it for this; but anyway: sure, lets see what you have. It will probably be better than what I have in place...

Irixion, on 14 January 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

This is exciting! :O I can't wait to see how the boss plays without the bug. Are you going to give us a hint on how to fix it ourselves? :P

Sure: open up s2.asm and find label 'loc_3DFF8'; this function is responsible for checking if:

• If Eggrobo has been defeated: causes him to break up if so;
• Otherwise:
  • If Eggrobo is flashing from a previous hit: keep flashing until timer runs out;
  • Otherwise:
    • If Eggrobo was hit on the body: play hit sound, start flashing;
    • Otherwise, if Eggrobo was hit on the head, then subtract 1 hit from hit counter, remove collision from body and proceed as previous item.

If you paid attention, you will have noticed that hitting Eggrobo in the head removes collision from the body, but that hitting him on the body does not remove collision from the head; we will fix this now. The easiest fix is to go to this piece of code:

loc_3E01E:
 	move.b	#$3C,objoff_2A(a0)
 	move.w	#SndID_BossHit,d0
 	jsr	(PlaySound).l

and change it to this:

loc_3E01E:
 	movea.w    objoff_36(a0),a1 ; a1=Eggrobo's head
 	clr.b    collision_flags(a1)	; Remove collision from head
 	move.b	#$3C,objoff_2A(a0)
 	move.w	#SndID_BossHit,d0
 	jsr	(PlaySound).l

That is it. Like I said: it was a trivial fix... (and ugh, the colors in the asm tags are awful...)

KingofHarts, on 16 January 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

You're not looking too much into it... Sonic is indeed modded to be faster than the others... BUT that's not the point... It's the closing scene to the game with the heroes escaping the exploding Death Egg... It makes 0 sense for Sonic to take off and leave his friends behind. Now... maybe if you put a "KingofHarts" character with Tails and Knuckles... absolutely it fits perfect, those annoying fuckers could eat my dust... LOL anyway, As I previously mentioned, it would make more sense for Sonic to run along with them, or maybe grab them by the hands and go into a dashing animation and take off.... I think that would be a perfect escape scene, and would fit nicely... I'd make a mockup of this myself if I knew how to get the damn pic uploaded directly to Retro... instead of embedding a URL from another site...

I will look into it. Probably setting all of them to use Sonic's speed is enough; although I think I will also add code to make them stand up and run if they are rolling.