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Sonic 2 sharing assets I'm starting to wonder if it did this with more zones

#16 User is offline nineko 

Posted 30 May 2019 - 01:36 PM

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View PostICEknight, on 30 May 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

I'm guessing that it's already been attempted to just swap the Hidden Palace and Oil Ocean palettes around, to see it their graphics fit somewhat?
Posted Image Posted Image

Yeah, I think it's pretty safe to scratch that idea off.

edit: by that, I mean the palette swap idea, I won't make the mistake to join the speculation game, kthx
This post has been edited by nineko: 30 May 2019 - 01:45 PM

#17 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 30 May 2019 - 01:57 PM

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I would say that Oil Ocean and Hidden Palace share design similarities... but they're meant to. It's called art direction.


I get the impression sometimes that with the Mega Drive, there was a genuine effort amongst Sega's developers not to recycle background artwork if it was possible to do so. I was genuinely surprised to see Super Mario World go down this path - it works against this idea that it's a "next generation" 16-bit game.

And it's the arcade mentality - if each stage offers something different, you feed the machine more money trying to see what's on offer.

#18 User is offline Hez 

Posted 30 May 2019 - 02:08 PM

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View PostOverlord, on 30 May 2019 - 01:07 PM, said:

View PostNeo, on 30 May 2019 - 06:31 AM, said:

Wing Fortress still had a broken layout just days before they went gold, so it was really down to the wire.

It still does even in the final, don't forget the conveyor belt that doesn't move you.


I wasn't it supposed to also have a conveyor above that had hooks or something, like in FBZ?

View Postnineko, on 30 May 2019 - 01:36 PM, said:

View PostICEknight, on 30 May 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

I'm guessing that it's already been attempted to just swap the Hidden Palace and Oil Ocean palettes around, to see it their graphics fit somewhat?
Posted Image Posted Image

Yeah, I think it's pretty safe to scratch that idea off.

edit: by that, I mean the palette swap idea, I won't make the mistake to join the speculation game, kthx


Theres the same number of greens as there are purples. I'm going to try some pallete location manipulation later. Although I'm wondering if it was a very early scrapped asset swap idea with "Secret Palace". Or Hidden Palace was just a level, and Secret Palace was the super sonic power giving stage? Maybe the true owner of sound track 10?

EDIT: also might add, Creig Stitt did Hidden Palace, and also the foreground of Oil Ocean.

"I should remember more about Oil Ocean, since this is one of the levels I worked on. All the forground art is mine, although the background is Yamaguchi's (no one liked my background, including me)"
This post has been edited by Hez: 30 May 2019 - 02:12 PM

#19 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 30 May 2019 - 02:16 PM

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View PostHez, on 30 May 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

"I should remember more about Oil Ocean, since this is one of the levels I worked on. All the forground art is mine, although the background is Yamaguchi's (no one liked my background, including me)"

I'm curious now what the original background art looked like.

#20 User is offline ultima espio 

Posted 30 May 2019 - 05:51 PM

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Well if you look at the original maps, Olympus is likely Hidden Palace set in the past, and it's ruined version was Oil Ocean. They probably have similarities to show they are the same place in different time zones in a more subtle way than Emerald Hill and Hill Top.

http://info.sonicret...gehog_2_(16-bit)/Development

#21 User is offline Zycor 

Posted 01 June 2019 - 11:45 AM

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I remember when the Sonic 2 mobile port came out, I swear I read a thing saying that the layout used in that port was the "furthest along the layout was ever designed" but that doesn't make much sense because it doesn't really seem like the level would have been plausible in that specific capacity on the original 16 bit hardware. Has anyone ported that layout to Sonic 2 on the Genesis? Out of curiosity? Unless the quote I'm thinking of was for the original idea where you'd just play until the "Master Emerald" looking stone and it'd warp you back to Mystic Cave.

#22 User is offline Glaber 

Posted 01 June 2019 - 04:36 PM

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you mean Sonic 2 mobile's Proto Palace?
This post has been edited by Glaber: 01 June 2019 - 04:36 PM

#23 User is offline Hez 

Posted 04 June 2019 - 01:21 PM

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View PostZycor, on 01 June 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:

I remember when the Sonic 2 mobile port came out, I swear I read a thing saying that the layout used in that port was the "furthest along the layout was ever designed" but that doesn't make much sense because it doesn't really seem like the level would have been plausible in that specific capacity on the original 16 bit hardware. Has anyone ported that layout to Sonic 2 on the Genesis? Out of curiosity? Unless the quote I'm thinking of was for the original idea where you'd just play until the "Master Emerald" looking stone and it'd warp you back to Mystic Cave.


Taxmans port was completely original. I love the remake, but the layout really didn't match the Sonic 2 gameplay.

#24 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 04 June 2019 - 01:34 PM

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The mobile version has both a "finished" Hidden Palace Zone, which was created from scratch, and "Proto Palace Zone", which consists of the layout seen in the prototypes.

We don't think the original Hidden Palace Zone was ever worked on after the Wai beta.

#25 User is offline Laura 

Posted 04 June 2019 - 06:10 PM

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Craig Stitt drew both Hidden Palace and Oil Ocean.

I'd say theres the reason for the similarity.

#26 User is offline Sid Starkiller 

Posted 04 June 2019 - 06:49 PM

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If they were intended to have palette-swapped graphics, it would make sense to assign them both to the same artist.

#27 User is offline Hez 

Posted 05 June 2019 - 08:39 AM

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I'm wondering if Hidden Palace was even Hidden Palace. Could be the rock zone? Hidden/Secret Palace could be a background/color swap of Oil Ocean zone.

#28 User is offline XCubed 

Posted 05 June 2019 - 11:09 AM

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View PostHEDGESMFG, on 30 May 2019 - 10:48 AM, said:

I doubt Hidden Palace was ever developed beyond what we saw, despite the minor updates to the concept.

It was likely dropped due to some complication in coding a gimmick related to it... I.E. Accessing it only after getting the emeralds, developing a cut-scene that shows the transformation, creating an ending part of the map that leads to this.

Nowhere else in the game is any sort of cutscene code/function added, yet Naka's interview hints that this might have been the intention here. Programming this sort of function may have taken time they didn't necessarily have, especially as it would require extra story-boarding, and possibly specialized animation too. We already know from the CENSOR/Beta 4 ROMs how last second of an addition Super Sonic was.

It also was a low priority most likely because it may not have ever been intended to be a full 2 act zone, so its own gimmicky nature may have just rendered it a low priority, and therefor easy to cut at the last second. Why go to all that trouble when you can just have Sonic jump up after grabbing 50 rings?


I could have sworn that y-axis wrapping plus active water was also a HUGE issue.

#29 User is offline Sonic Hachelle-Bee 

Posted 05 June 2019 - 11:15 AM

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Labyrinth zone handles y-axis warping and active water without issues.

#30 User is offline Hez 

Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:42 PM

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Has any hack ever fixed that issue with the wrapping? I swear I remember one having the platform rising as intended?

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