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Any 2D resources for Modern Sonic moves/skills?

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by CommandanteStreakTH, Dec 24, 2015.

  1. CommandanteStreakTH

    CommandanteStreakTH

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    I'm looking for prepackaged code for moves such as homing attack, lightspeed dash, boost, etc. etc. for 2D Sonic engines, do you know where I can find some? I'm also wondering if they're for GM, Sonic Worlds, or both. Saves us some time having to program them from scratch.
     
  2. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    Good timing. The Sonic Worlds engine is updating tomorrow with much of what you're looking for.
     
  3. CommandanteStreakTH

    CommandanteStreakTH

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    That timing is most impeccable indeed. Looks like I have one more point against using GameMaker as the engine.


    Say, you've been a helpful if snarky (I think?) chap, what engine would you recommend yourself?
     
  4. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    Sonic Worlds is in many ways the best right now given how thorough and feature rich it is, and MMF2's simplicity makes it easy to use. However, MMF2 has huge drawbacks that keep me from using it, and these issues have resulted in Worlds becoming very bloated and difficult to manage. In other words, it's easy to use off the bat, but attempting to make any significant modifications or even a full game can become a huge strain. If you're wondering, Sonic Worlds can be used with CF2.5, but it's not much better than MMF2.
    I would recommend Sonic MAX for Game Maker Studio, given it's arguably the best Game Maker engine around. It only has homing attack as far as modern abilities go, but the engine is full of features, very accurate, versatile and relatively easy to use. Tpot, the creator, is also fairly active, can answer questions here, and is still updating the engine.
    GMate, a Game Maker 8 engine with a planned Game Maker Studio port, is in development right now and that will be a good rival to MAX. It'll have several modern abilities out of the box, and may be more what you're looking for. However, it won't be public until next SAGE, a few months from now.
     
  5. CommandanteStreakTH

    CommandanteStreakTH

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    I see. So basically, Sonic Worlds is only good as-is, but if you want to add extra gameplay, the GM engines are the way to go? You see, I'm planning to add in a layer of combat and an rpg-like element to the game, is it still achievable in Sonic Worlds or is it not feasible, compared to the GM engines? I've been looking for Sonic Worlds because I can't program, and I don't plan on being a programmer, yet I still want to get some of the weight off my co-developers' backs and chip in here and there, since it's so simpler to use compared to GM. Do you think it'd still be worth either?

    Also, I'm a bit unsure whether to wait for the next SAGE just for another engine, I was wondering if there were any resources since I've seen them in other games.
     
  6. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    It's certainly achievable in Sonic Worlds, but it can quickly get very sticky and complicated. I would only recommend doing so if you have a strong knowledge and understanding of Worlds' inner workings, as well as MMF2 itself.
    You would likely be able to achieve this much more simply and cleanly with a Game Maker engine, but if you can't do programming, I don't know what to tell you. GML is very easy to learn and use, so if you're willing to take a step up from visual programming, you'll have a lot more at your disposal for what would likely not be much trouble.
     
  7. CommandanteStreakTH

    CommandanteStreakTH

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    I do have a couple programmers on my team, and one of them knows his way around GM, so it's a good start. I could certainly learn from them if given the chance. The real problem now is whether to go ahead with the work or find yet another programmer, more skilled and experienced in GameMaker and GML. What would be your advice?

    (Are you interested yourself in what the game is about?)
     
  8. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    I have nothing to base an interest on yet, but you're welcome to explain it and I'll give whatever advice I can.
    I would recommend you dive in and do everything you can, because ultimately you'll just become that much more capable as you go.
     
  9. Mors

    Mors

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    Sonic MAX is a really great engine, however it's not that easy to use and it requires some GML experience. If you (or your co-developers) don't know GML, don't start to learn it with Sonic MAX.
    If you have enough experience with GML, download it and try to learn how it works. Believe me, it's not hard to use, it just looks a bit complicated. Also, Sonic MAX' homing attack only works with enemies, so if you wanna use it with springs or other stuff you need to edit it a little bit.
    If you will have any programming related questions, I will try to answer them as much as I can. But I can't guarantee I can answer everything since I'm not the developer of that engine lol
     
  10. CommandanteStreakTH

    CommandanteStreakTH

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    Thanks for all the support! Anyone know of any good tutorials on GML? Ones that are intuitive, easy and possibly even entertaining?
     
  11. Felik

    Felik

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    I'm so tempted to opensource my engine just to make you stop mumbling around about how much MMF/CF sucks for making a freaking Sonic fangame. SW is packed with features and yes it's extremely difficult to edit/add new features but actual reasons for that is that it's very poorly programmed and as any freaking engine in existence needs to be studied (and studied hard) to be understood.
    CF2.5 is more than enough if you just wanna make a Sonic fangame. You just have to not suck at making code and actually have more than superficial knowledge of how to work in it.
     
  12. CommandanteStreakTH

    CommandanteStreakTH

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    I see, however what I'm asking is which engine works best that allows additional features and gameplay, for example the aforementioned combat and RPG-like mechanics, and I think Mr Lange summed them up quite nicely.
     
  13. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    This is basically everything Lange just said though. You didn't really make much of a defense!

    Anyway, Commandante, I don't think you need to worry about "best" right now. Pick a development environment, and stick with it. Make a one level game to get a feel for things, and maybe you'll decide you want to try something else. You sound like you've got some learning to do, and I don't think making a full fangame serves as that great of a learning experience.
     
  14. TimmiT

    TimmiT

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    So wait, people should stop complaining about how much MMF/CF sucks, cause it doesn't suck cause it's very poorly programmed?

    Uuuh
     
  15. CommandanteStreakTH

    CommandanteStreakTH

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    I think I understand what you mean. If so then, what's a good balance between learning how GameMaker works and helping out with the actual project?
     
  16. Felik

    Felik

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    No no, MMF/CF sucks hard if you wanna make anything more or less unusual and challenging (and not strictly in 2D) that would also not be unoptimized as shit. But 2D Sonic fangames are not rocket science, especially ones that imitate classic/advance/rush gameplay so MMF/CF is more than enough for that cause it's accessible, easy to use and has a ton of examples/engines.

    If I was to learn a game making environment today I would definitely not use MMF/CF or Gamemaker for sure.
     
  17. winterhell

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    Start using any engine or programming language and practice, practice, practice. Then practice again. Take a tutorial. Implement it. Try to understand why it was used like that, change things a bit. When you need to do something, don't think about ' has somebody done this before, can I copy it verbatim so I don't have to do anything'. This is not a test in school on a subject that would never be of use to you in your life.
    Break problems into smaller parts.
    You want to do an air dash. What do you need? You need to read the state of the B button. To raise a flag that you are in the air dash state. To change the character horizontal velocity. How do you switch animations? etc.

    Programming is hard, and so is 'scripting'. You need to spend much time to get good at it.
    If its not for you, then you have to be even better at drawing so that the programmers who can implement those things would be remotely interested in *your* *unpaid* project.

    Doesnt matter that much which engine you'll pick. You can do everything on all of them. Yes all of them are relatively slow and crappy. Relatively, because that drawback is offset by the current speed of the hardware. Your game runs 100 times slower than Sonic & Knuckles Collection? Well you are not going to play it on Pentium 1 75MHz anyway, right?
     
  18. CommandanteStreakTH

    CommandanteStreakTH

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    Well thanks anyways. Really, the thing is I never thought that I could ever make my game because my knowledge in programming and design is at state zero, but after I found some people who volunteered to be on the team anyway because they liked my idea, it sorta came to me like shock therapy. Now I'm confused what to do since I didn't go with my plan of learning how to make a game with either engine (w/coding vs w/o coding) before I publicly present it, I already have a team running so I'm not sure if I still have the time to learn when I have other responsibilities to do, and I'm not sure if I'm a decent artist enough, let alone the fact that, even if I was a good artist, I just work far too slowly. I'm not supposed to be ready for this but we're going with it anyways because I think we need to do this before Sonic dies, to preserve the franchise's dignity. I'm probably being too harsh on myself, but I'm just not sure what the next step should be. I wasn't ready for any of this, but then again, maybe I never was. Now I just have to work with what I've got. I know the developer community quite well and how demanding it can be, and it makes me feel like I don't have the skills to do any of this. I'm probably just being too hard on myself, but I don't know. I want to be a part of the development process so my team doesn't find me to be demanding or bossy, because there's a lot of ideas that have to be implemented in our project, and I want to keep their morale up.
     
  19. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    Felik, MMF2/CF2.5 is shitty. It has critical disadvantages that can easily stunt development. It's simple but it's simple in some of the worst possible ways.
    If he were just making a simple Sonic fangame, I'd say sure, it'd probably be fine, even if still not an optimal way to go.
    However, he's said here that he intends to expand the gameplay with new abilities and some sort of stat building system. That's already asking for a lot of trouble, and he'd ultimately be better off learning a starting language like GML and working with a more flexible system.
     
  20. winterhell

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    You say you have several programmers on the team. Are they actually good, are they coding more than 30 minutes on an odd weekend?

    How serious are you about this project? Do you yourself spend only 30 minutes a day or less? If so maybe you should focus on the 2 part time jobs you are working on and feeding your kids first. If you are in high school you have ZERO excuse for not putting like 20 hours a week in the project.

    People wont think you are bossy or demanding if you are actually doing work.
    And for the last time(heard this many times from many people) talking/discussing the project with other people/team members does not count towards work.

    P.S. Sonic wont 'die' or anything. That doesn't even have any relevance to fan games. Your project will not 'save' anything.