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Sonic Xtreme Saturn 718 Hacking and Modding

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Andrew75, Jun 16, 2017.

  1. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    No sorry, ive been working on AXSX fulltime now, probably wont have time to look anymore, I think we need someone more experienced to look threw the data. I don't have what it takes sadly.
     
  2. Shoemanbundy

    Shoemanbundy

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    That's alright Andrew, I know you're busy with AXSX. I was more asking who did what to get that above area accessible. Like, I'd think it would have become news here on the forums that someone got something new to show up within the Sonic Xtreme demo, and yet no one's talking about it or how they did it. Is the wiki editor Cerv3ro a member here I wonder?

    Edit: OK, I feel stupid. The person who made those screenshots simply disabled graphics layers with SSF to get those results. Talk about misleading.
     
  3. Shoemanbundy

    Shoemanbundy

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    I got curious, so I spent a ridiculous amount of time messing around with Bizhawk's RAM searcher hoping to maybe find more hidden stuff. I was hoping there'd be a faint chance of a level RAM value so I can get to the Fang area, but that's wishful thinking.

    The only interesting thing I've found is a white fade out effect that could have been for when you pass a level. Go to address 08CC4A when the level first loads up and enter any value into it before the Jade Gully title disappears. It was interesting thinking it may transport me to another level, but sadly no such thing happens. It was probably originally planned for when you get past a level though I imagine. Address 072DB2 also stores how many rings you have, but going to 55 and beyond for some reason freezes the game.

    Oh, and if you want to get to ridiculously high heights, use 0741FA at set it to 2 and you can keep double jumping into the sky and beyond.
     
  4. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    XD , You know, I really would have thought someone with super awesome Hacking skills would have combed threw every digit of hex in 718 by now,
    I mean look we have this fantastic community here, but no one with the skills is really stepping up, Sanik and Jolly have gone threw the build, but not 100%
    If anyone is interested, I am willing to share the progress where me and Daguar have left off, I have some notes, and also in Photoshop ive mapped out using layers for what chunks of data represent what objects in game.
    Also inside hex workshop , I've also mapped out pointers by name and where they are pointing to for as bookmarks. ( its very tedious work)
    If Nack's Model is inside the build, I'm sure there must be more from his stage included, or maybe even perhaps if the right flag is tripped, We could maybe even get to play a boss fight.
     
  5. biggestsonicfan

    biggestsonicfan

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    11 years and StF debug mode is just now surfacing. It's harder to gain interest in the nicheness.
     
  6. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    And what prettell is StF debug mode?
     
  7. biggestsonicfan

    biggestsonicfan

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    A fully accessible debug menu in Sonic the Fighters.
     
  8. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    Ah~ha , sounds interesting but it's not related to Sonic X-treme or anything is it ?
     
  9. biggestsonicfan

    biggestsonicfan

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    I was merely comparing the lack of community interest between the two games and how long it's taken for a debug mode in a Sonic game to be activated.
     
  10. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    haha oh oh oh, ok ! I really Wish there was more interest.
     
  11. XL2

    XL2

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    I did mess a little bit with it.

    The "boss engine" is made using SGL and it's using the same base address for the text display as the default setting in SGL (it's also true for the POV demo).
    It took me like 2 minutes to rip the HUD from VDP2 VRAM and put it in my own game.

    It would also be super easy to rip the 3D model as we already have the layout of the polygon data (SGL PDATA), the only "hard" thing would be to find the starting adress in memory, but even that is not very hard, just time counsuming.

    The textures are also just using 15 bits RGB data, so it's also super easy to rip those from VRAM.
    Code (Text):
    1.  
    2. typedef struct {
    3.     POINT   *pntbl ;        /* ???????????? */
    4.     Uint32   nbPoint ;      /* ???? */
    5.     POLYGON *pltbl ;        /* ?????????? */
    6.     Uint32   nbPolygon ;        /* ?????? */
    7.     ATTR    *attbl ;        /* ???????????????? */
    8. } PDATA ;  // That's 3 pointers and 2 long, which means 5x4 bytes = 20 bytes. You can find the vertices, normals, attributes, etc. by looking at these pointers.
    9.  
    Each verticle is 12 bytes long, each polygon has 1 normal (12 bytes) and 4 vertices reference (8 bytes), while each attribute is 12 bytes long, as follow :
    Code (Text):
    1.  
    2. typedef struct {
    3.     Uint8    flag ;         /* ?????????? */
    4.     Uint8    sort ;         /* ???????????????? */
    5.     Uint16   texno ;        /* ??????? */
    6.     Uint16   atrb ;         /* ??????????(?????) */
    7.     Uint16   colno ;        /* ??????? */
    8.     Uint16   gstb ;         /* ??????????????? */
    9.     Uint16   dir ;          /* ???????????????????? */
    10. } ATTR ;
    11.  

    It's not using gouraud shading for the map (only the diamonds and Sonic AFAIK), but if you want gouraud shading you just need to change the attributes' gouraud shading value to point where you store your gouraud shading colors in VRAM.

    It could also be easy to change the map, the only issue would be the pointers after the polygon data which wouldn't fit and would need to be changed (which would be a real pain) and the collision data (again, it's probably just using the SGL default collision code, which uses 1 point, a normal and a bounding sphere's radius, with a uniform grid layout).

    In fact, there is even one SGL demo made by Chris Coffin in october 1996 which shows paletted gouraud shading using a hardware bug and a palette using different gradiants to create gouraud shading on paletted sprites (which should be impossible using VDP2 Color RAM). I don't know the exact cancellation date of Sonic X-Treme, but it's clear that Coffin reused lot of things he did within SGL's demos, such as the metal Sonic model and the Sonic model.
     
  12. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    I wanted to download some of the SGL demos that were already compiled into atlas packs which run on Saturn, they can be found on rockin B's website, but all the links are down. http://www.rockin-b.de/saturn-atlasgamepacks.html I also have SGL 3.02, but with so much going on, I never get a chance to screw around in trying to figure out how to compile them to run on saturn. Would like to see what they look like with my own 2 eyes at some point. Also if we can get ahold of SGL 3.2 someday. I hear tell that there was some amazing tech in that library which could more than double saturn's polygon pushing power.
     
  13. XL2

    XL2

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    You can download "Saturn orbit", which includes the SGL folder with all the demos.
    Just open the "MAKE_COFF.bat" and it will create the iso, which you just need to load with an emulator.
    You can find the model editor too, which includes Sonic, Metal Sonic, a sample map, etc.

    As for SGL 3.2 - if it even exists - I really highly doubt it could double the polygon count, even by using the SCU DSP (which SGL doesn't) or the audio processors to do something else than audio you still couldn't get that far, unless they fully ditched what they did, but then it wouldn't simply be called SGL 3.2, it would be something like SGL 4 or whatever. Unless they meant processed quads but not displayed.
     
  14. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    I wanted to add that as you already know, we found Nack's model and Metal sonic's stage walls using hex editor, but did not see Metal sonics model in there. But that don't mean it's not in there. Because we only figured out about what half of the data was and crossed it off the list.

    Edit:
    According to my source, SGL 3.2 could produce over 1,000,000 polygons per second using a technique called AVR processing. I don't know how it worked or have any specifics.
    Edit : yeah, ive toyed around with the model editors some years back. I think that someday, SGL 3.2 will surface somewhere. Would be nice to see what kinds of interesting tech demos it produced.
    And thx for the info on Saturn, orbit ! gana try it later on tonight when I get back on the PC.