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Mobius Evolution

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Felik, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

    A wise guy eh. I know how to DEAL with wise guys. Member
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    >someone posts an opinion
    >someone responds with a rant about opinions
    This is one of the most annoying things ever. It's like going to a pie eating contest and someone lectures others about healthy eating. We all know what we're doing here, we don't need to be told. Just focus on the subject matter, share your thoughts and respond to others relevantly for the love of god.

    Now to avoid irony I'm going to actually address the topic lol.

    The hack seems to be efforts spread thin. It's a lot of effort over a wide range. It's commendable for being a start to finish game at least. There's some good ideas, and it seems like the first stage had the most work put into it by far.
     
  2. Clownacy

    Clownacy

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    Jesus, why can't people point out the negatives of a hack without this happening? I didn't need to be reminded of that Void nonsense.

    Anyway, Felik, this is the same thread where the insult "snooty" is being thrown around. Speaking of...

    Are you seriously going to go with the 'you can't criticise a game if you can't make one yourself' argument, on here of all places? SuperEgg's right. This is Into The Void. ...Unless you're making a point about people not at least respecting the amount of work put into the hack, which I can understand.

    Speaking of the speaking of, I can appreciate the time and effort, wherever it's been put - after all, I never said I wasn't impressed keepthatharmfulabridgingtoyourselfFelix - I just don't appreciate that it wasn't put into more vital areas. It sucks to see so much go towards so little. When a game's only enjoyable when you're watching someone else play it, something's horribly wrong!

    Since I have an excuse to post, here are more points about the hack: It says something when the graphics are louder than the music. Be it saturation or contrast (or even both, in the case of Golden Nature), the levels are a little hard to look at. The hardware incompatibility I came across had to do with that weird, hopping lizard thing. Object 1F, if the RAM is anything to go by. Probably word/longword-sized SSTs on odd addresses.
     
  3. Eduardo Knuckles

    Eduardo Knuckles

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    Well, well... There's some deep shit said in this topic but I'll nothing but about the hack itself. I think that the effort is valid more than the hack's playability actually, since this hack is still in a slow and patient development process. One of my friends tried to run the hack in the real hardware but it resulted in a giant number of crashes everywhere. It's because this hack is not optimized for the real hardware yet. We're working to fix everything, all accord the feedback given. And before someone asks me... No, I'm not the author of this hack. I'm sure that major of the people here already know Abyssal Leopard but have no idea of this. Anyway, it's time for me to give my feedback (not about the other people's feedback, but about the hack itself).

    Art: I love this hack's art. It's obvious that some of the art needs to be retouched here and there. But it's quite brilliant the way they are being made. Most of them (practically them all, except for foreground related chunks) are being hand-draw'd before going up into the pixel-art. The team is doing the maximum to make the game stable and nice for everyone. So art is something we're working most.

    Badniks and mechanics: Some of them were invented... *cough* *cough* by *cough*... me. For the ones who don't believe, click the links below and see by themselves.
    https://www.facebook.com/EgglandProject/photos/pb.251509508236310.-2207520000.1439225292./788784361175486/?type=3&theater
    https://www.facebook.com/EgglandProject/photos/pb.251509508236310.-2207520000.1439225292./788769301176992/?type=3&theater
    https://www.facebook.com/EgglandProject/photos/pb.251509508236310.-2207520000.1439225292./788768877843701/?type=3&theater
    https://www.facebook.com/EgglandProject/photos/pb.251509508236310.-2207520000.1439225292./788768811177041/?type=3&theater
    https://www.facebook.com/EgglandProject/photos/pb.251509508236310.-2207520000.1439225292./788768187843770/?type=3&theater

    Does this one here sounds familiar?
    www.harderproject.com/area51/menu_mobius-characterselection.jpg

    Music: Well... The music are all made by me. What I mean is that the feedback about music can be given to me directly.


    In general, most of the purpose of the vídeo showcase are to show you guys what we want to the game. All the feedback are freely acceptable and welcome. Just take care of what to say, because there's a daily effort being applied. We want the best game ever for you, folks. Thanks to everyone, but plese, take in mind that the hack will be still heavily changed/fixed. This is only the start.
     
  4. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester

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    It's unfair to judge any project based on the downfall of one aspect, likewise, it isn't justified to praise a project for only its positive aspects...

    The concepts for these stages are brilliant, and the ideas thrown in are fantastic, very unique I would say. A coffin that collects and drops you into the ground? Never, would such an idea be put into practice in a Sonic hack, I praise the bosses for their uniqueness too. Speaking of bosses and gimmicks, the programmer(s) of this project seem to be doing well, it is rather mediocre at times, but it's a great starting point, and I feel they are on their way to becoming professional game programmer(s) in general. As programming is suggested to have a learning curve, I'd say they were at the mid-point of that curve, heading towards the quickest part, so that may be a good sign folks.

    Artwork I am semi-pleased about. I really do appreciate the new background designs, it's not very often we see new artwork in the scene, I've been around for about nearly 9 years, and artwork is ALWAYS lacking. Most people just port levels from another game, put a stamp on it, and say; "fuck it, that'll do", so it's nice to see these new backgrounds and the fact that they are identifiable too is a bonus (you can tell what they're supposed to be). Having said that, they could have been detailed better, some pixel techniques could be used, or a smoother grade selection of the colours. The foreground I would suggest the same in terms of detail, but I would also add that it would be nice to have the levels differentiate from their original counterparts (Example, Creepy Crypt Zone still looks like Marble Zone despite having a wonderful palette and nice background. Actually, this is the best looking Zone in my opinion, a very nice design indeed).

    My opinion for the music is less pleasing though, I find the lack of unique instruments leads to a boring piece of music, though the fact that I've experienced this same issue with other projects, tells me that there's a central source that's the cause of it all. Some tool perhaps? A download site? I honestly don't know, but it's plaguing everyone's music damn it! (Nobody misunderstand, I don't hate these instruments, I just dislike the overuse). The music in general is OK, I recognise some interesting remakes, and they do seem fine. I wouldn't say that many of them fit the "theme" of the levels they intend to fit, but I've heard worse by many before hand. There is still plenty of room for improvement though and that is not an understatement.

    When it comes to level layout design, let me be blunt, it is extremely poor in places. The first level especially, when people say there are too many springs they mean it. There's little to no flow, and you have sections of the level where it's hold right to win, followed by a series of heavy difficulty full of dick moves. I've got nothing more to say on layouts...

    The hack is mediocre, but it has form and direction, and of course, I recognise a few names in the credits, and those guys have improved a lot since. It is therefore my opinion that it may take a long time, but they will get better, and if they intend on continuing the hack passed this release, the hack will be subjected to some immense changes that will eventually rid it of the downfalls, and expand into advanced territories.

    Guys, if you are reading this, then good luck to you all~
     
  5. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    Thank you... Srsly I'd taken some time off Retro cuz I got sick of seeing shit like what you just described... maybe I should stay away for longer.

    Anyway, this hack shows promise... but (*gasp*) it still needs a lot of work... that said, my criticisms and suggestions are being brought to the hacker himself as I'm not submitting myself to the immaturity of (some of the people in) this group. Just quit shitting in the punch bowl and keep an eye out for this hack in the future... I personally believe great things are coming with this one in due course.
     
  6. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Hey, I went for four years and it didn't do any good. :v:
     
  7. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Is there a term for music where there isn't really much of a structure or melody, because there's a lot of that in the Sonic fan community these days. This is just noise to me - it's not like, say, Sonic 2 where you can go away humming all the tunes when you're done.

    Except the Sonic 2 Game Gear tracks. Though whether they'll ever transfer over to the Mega Drive well is yet to be seen.

    That end of act jingle in particular rubbed me up the wrong way. It's annoying for reasons I honestly can't describe.


    The art does get progressively worse over time, but it doesn't start off horrendously bad. The first thing to do would be to sort out those light sources - all the new art has the "sun" in the top right, whereas Green Hill Zone acted as if it were in the top left. And then there's the parallax, and then there's "BLUE ZONE 1" replacing Labyrinth and "BLUE ZONE 2" replacing Marble. Lots could be fixed with palette changes tbh.


    Gameplay wise I can't really comment, but from what I've seen there's a lot of backwards-forwards-backwards-forwards motion across the level and that can really drain on you after a while in a Sonic 1 hack.


    It's a good start but it definitely needs work.
     
  8. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I gave the game a shot. It's mean. Dick Robotnik monitor placements, that platform in the first act of the second level that goes up into spikes instead of down like you would think, springs that lead directly into pits, that far too precise first boss. I mean I commend you on the originality and difficulty is good, but don't make it like rage bullshit difficulty. :colbert:
     
  9. Eduardo Knuckles

    Eduardo Knuckles

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    Sorry for the very large post, but I felt it's time to talk about the feedback given. So...

    Hm... Heheh!

    Hm... It's still not exactly well nor done at all, but thanks for consider the project. It's a team-based project which is being worked everyday for us to provide a nice product in the end.


    We understand your experienced viewpointed of the game by pointing every little piece of the problems at all, but we running through all the problems to fix everything for make the game to be nice in the end. Thanks for pointing your opinion the way you did. The more specific the people be, the better will be for us to find the problems and to fix them.


    Yeah, we will look through the concept of this boss to rework it according something more Sonic-ish. It's a very good point, though we're already looking up into it to make it better and decent.


    Hahahahahaha, dear Dalek. You're not going insane. This is true!


    Crazy frogs? You mean the first level's chameleons? Hehe.


    I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed since the start that this was what you meant with your post.


    Yeah. This is one of the first things we're currently fixing. Art contrast, brightness and definitions of what are what is something important and it's better when it's well-applied. Thanks a lot for clear us this.


    It'd be nice if you be specific about the third thing. Giving details about how to improve the bosses and such. The springs thing is also one of the things we're fixing too.


    Thanks a lot. But you have to also consider the fact that we wanted to release a version for get the people's feedback for eactly to fix everything according them. This release of the hack is very far of what it's supposed be in its final product.


    You should do this when the final release become true. This current release isn't yet optimized for the real hardware. We're looking hardly to fix the compatibility of every piece of the stuff. But major of them are in need of to be redone, so we will do it with patience.


    I'm also changing the songs. It's nice to see you liked my choices, anyway. Thanks a lot!


    That's the point, dude. Go for it!


    Wow, I'm very happy by see such nice comment given by such great romhacker. It's nice to see that you consider the new stuff as a good thing for the hack. This is the kind of comment which makes us to feel that our effort on the project is being valid.


    Yeah, that was only a proto release. We're putting a lot of effort to make the nice game ever for the community to enjoy.


    Thanks again. And thanks a lot. We really hope to make a memorable in the end. Thanks for appreciate how the development is going and to really to point our stuff as nice.

    Like said before... It's true the hack needs polish. The spring-to-spring thing is really one of the things we're dedicating most to fix. The level contrasts are also being fixed. Thanks for also to point these.


    He realy was. And we're running to fix everything.


    We understand every viewpoint and such and we're really not Sonic Team. We're working to make the best for you guys. But we have to understand the people's points too. If Clownacy wasn't the experienced romhacker he is, I should say that he could be wrong. But he is really correct about everything he said. He just gave his viewpoint about the game. We also don't need to be rude to him. Thanks for understand our willpower, anyway.


    I really don't want to talk about other people's opinion about other people's opinion about a thing. But I really appreciate the importance you gave to the team effort in the game.


    Thanks a lot. We really hope to release a nice game soon. We're fixing the stuff. Anyway, feedback is important and we need the people to be specific about even the minimal details for us to fix them to provide something nice into the next release.


    It's true.


    These are being hardly searched to be fixed. Thanks a lot for point these.
     
  10. Ritz

    Ritz

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    The latter. Completing a project is a skill. I'm astonished no one's discussing (or denying) that this is the first hack to provide a fresh experience from start to finish. That's an important milestone!
     
  11. Chaud

    Chaud

    Member
    No problem, but bear with me - english isn't my native language, so I have some difficulty in finding the best words to describe what I think.

    • First boss: Robotnik on a spring. I just love it, it's simple, but fun, and really matches with the concept of the game. Great idea there.
    • Second boss: A giant robot fish. Well... It's nothing spectacular, but we can live with it. The problem isn't so much the idea, but the execution. Clownacy did a great summary. The art is very amateurish (the original badnick stretched, basically), the stage is slow and excessively long, and the attack pattern of the boss is boring. C'mon, it's basically stuck during most of the fight, while others badnicks "fly" by. Take the concept itself: a piranha robot. This virtually *demands* that the fighting against it involves, basically, it trying to bite Sonic while moving through the area. Leaving it still is everything you should *not* have done there.
    • Third boss: a tank that shoots bombs. I even found the idea interesting, but the movement of the boss is really strange, it doesn't seem natural. It moves way too fast, looks more like a pasted image on screen than something that is really there. Compare it with the natural movement of the first boss in Sonic 2, F-6t. The fact that it suddenly changes the direction its facing (that "horizontal flip") is kinda awkward. Again in Sonic 2, when the F-6t change the direction its facing, it does so off-screen. Possibly because it's a car, this sudden change is strange (a feeling that doesn't occur in the flying bosses) - so I would recommend that you should follow its example and don't make this change within the visible area. Also, the sprite should have more animation (especially in the wheels), as it seems somewhat "motionless". This only worsens the impression that it's a pasted image on the screen.
    • Fourth boss: similarly to the above case. the star moves aren't "natural", it's like something from another game stuck in a Sonic game. The star doesn't seems to follow the internal logic of the game, which always seems to give the feeling of inertia and weight to everything in it. I don't know how you could solve this exactly, but I would say that the star's movement should follow more fluid patterns, think of it as an object that is part of the game. With acceleration, weight and inertia. And besides that, it would be interesting if the Egg Mobile had some modification in the art, possibly some ornaments and various neon lights to match the concept of the stage? It's kinda underwhelming as it is.
    • Last boss: I like the idea, but... The art leaves much to be desired there. The dragon's head is fine I guess, but its body clashes with the rest of the art in the game.They are *completely* different. The fact that it has no animation whatsoever and that the small flames that move "magically" in the screen are the only real challenge/enemy in there doesn't help one bit. It's the same as the second boss problem: most of the time it's just there, as "other stuff" attack you. In addition, those tiny little flames used in the boss's attacks have no impact. It doesn't looks like an attack made by the "final boss", a (supposedly powerful and mighty) dragon. They need to reach a bigger area, they need to larger, more menacing. It needs to look like something that would burn more than the tip of my finger.

    And that's it, I think!

    (And I want to reiterate that you should drastically decrease the "neon" effect of Neon Star. The constant color change isn't only terribly tiring for the eyes, but it's confusing as hell for the player and, above all, it's a pretty ugly effect. I wouldn't say that you should completely dismiss the idea, but limit this effect to *some* objects of the level. The whole background is overkill.)


    Yeah, it is important. But the point is that, in the end, what matters is the end result. I can admire the effort of someone put in his work, but if the result isn't interesting, in a way, is a waste. But this doesn't prevent him from trying to improve the negative points of the hack - because, personally, I think it has good potential.
     
  12. ELS

    ELS

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    This seems neat but I read "hardware incompatibility" in an early post, it won't work on a real Genesis?
     
  13. If you wait until SHC version, you will able to play it on.
     
  14. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Wow can't believe no one has bumped this since the hacking contest started.

    I gave this game a full playthrough on my Genesis. Bravo good sir, it was fantastic. Original levels, new gimmicks, new bosses, whole 9 yards there. Just 2 minor things

    1. The vine things in Egg Hell are kinda janky, definitely had some trouble getting by those, particularly with the gravity altering monitors in effect
    2. The 2nd act of that crypt level doesn't have a special stage ring in it regardless of if you have 50 rings or not (Considering the special stages are pretty difficult I could use all the rings I can get).

    But besides those, great, great stuff.
     
  15. Lilly

    Lilly

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    I've been playing this hack lately myself thanks to it being posted in the contest. It made me so happy to finally see Blaze in a Sonic rom hack for once; I'm also happy the animations I made for CylentNite's Blaze in a sheet on Spriter's Resource is also getting a lot of use now. I really should go back and purify the colors on that thing. (Some sprites have odd grays that aren't from the palette, and that obviously complicates the import process for hacks.)

    It's not totally perfect looking in some places, but I applaud that we got a finished hack for once. The one-level demo wonders here and there are technically impressive, and they're also tiring at the same time when you know 99% of them will never be finished projects. I think the Sonic fan game scene has had enough overly ambitious projects that don't go anywhere.
     
  16. Abyssal Leopard

    Abyssal Leopard

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    I wasn't going to waste one of my Trial Member posts for something about my hack, but... I consider it important.

    http://www.mediafire.com/download/1scn2uv7nca6e27/s1built.bin

    A quick update me and my team made in two weeks - the updating deadline in the Hacking Contest and the contest week. I thought it was necessary to fix a couple of things here and there, so there you go. As for the hack, I'm not going to work on it any more - lots of personal issues to solve, and as you might understand, I'm not going to go into specifics. Anyway, I hope you enjoy it.

    Credits:Music: DynamiteSlash / Mr. Moonshining, Cinossu (Final Boss theme)
    Beta testing (Level layouts): Natsumi / Green Snake, Ralakimus, NeoFusionBox, AsuharaMoon, Dan, KarateCat
    Beta testing (Real hardware): Ralakimus, JoenickROS
    Artistic assistance: AsuharaMoon, GalliumGrant (for Uncharted Tide 3's boss graphics), Robot Echidna
    Programming assistance: HCKTrox, HPZMan
    Special Stage layout testing: Professor Neo
    Blaze Sprites: Cylent Nite, .Luke, AsuharaMoon
    Special Thanks: Bareirito, NewSonic, The Ducks, and so many others
    NOTE: If you believe I have forgotten you, please mention yourself in the main topic in the forums and/or contact me wherever you can. – Abyssal Leopard

    This hacking experience is something I will never forget, but I'm not gonna remember the experience itself only. Every one of you that has made a slight effort to keep this going will remain in my memory forever. You all, even those I might have had trouble with, are wonderful.

    Another thing to note, that I'm not hacking any more (though I might decide to make a slightly polished version of this after I'm able to) doesn't mean I won't contribute in the community by posting suggestions, ideas and ways to improve to help other members. I'll be around, just not being involved in any personal project myself.

    EDIT: I saw people enjoying the hack. I'm glad you've had a great time!

    @Dark Sonic: I was able to fix the big ring issue, I didn't put it in that level in particular in the contest ROM due to a glitch that has already been dealt with. As for the cable gimmick, I wasn't able to do much, but I'm glad you've enjoyed the game.
     
  17. Felik

    Felik

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    So the first and last version of the hack is going to be 3.0?
    C'mon man, I really REALLY want to enjoy this hack but it's almost impossible to enjoy because of countless glitches. Right now it feels like a draft of a great hack rather than something actually playable.
    It'd be a huge waste of effort if you decided to never polish this gem.
     
  18. Abyssal Leopard

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    Correction, this is 3.5. But I will do my best at making a bugfix version to be released soon.
    EDIT: I would like you to list the amount of glitches you found so that I can fix them, if you don't mind -- it'd be great help. Perhaps I can do something about it
    EDIT2: This... is not the first version of the game - the first version is 2.0, which is incredibly outdated and IS unplayable. This one is playable, but it definitely needs bug searching. I'll be slowly working on that.
     
  19. Abyssal Leopard

    Abyssal Leopard

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    Bumping topic because I find it extremely necessary.

    I noticed everybody is playing the Sonic Hacking contest versión, which was completely rushed. I've updated it since THE SHC2015 and uploaded the new version in the mediafire link I posted below. This is versión 3.5, not 3.0.

    http://www.mediafire.com/download/1scn2uv7nca6e27/s1built.bin

    Have fun.

    EDIT: It includes a fix of a dick move found in a stream.
     
  20. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    I think this new version deserves people's attention. Even if you played the contest version, give this a run through.