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Sonic Generations Megathread II WORD ON THE STREET: IT CAN'T BE BEAT

#2776 User is offline Crappy Blue Luigi 

Posted 11 February 2012 - 02:41 AM

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pokecapn demonstrates the most stylish way to die in Speed Highway Act 2.

youtube.com/watch?v=5ZK0Ul1N- -g

Remove the space. I would embed, but—if the space wasn't a big enough hint—Retro insists on changing the double-hyphen into a dash, rendering the url completely fucking useless. Nice work!

#2777 User is offline jasonchrist 

Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:20 PM

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Ok, here's an interesting question...

Which Generations levels do you think outdid the originals?

For me I'd have to say...

Green Hill - No
Chemical Plant - No
Sky Sanctuary - No, but damn it's pretty!
Metal Sonic Boss - No
Death Egg Boss - Yes
Speed Highway - No
City Escape - Yes
Seaside Hill - Yes
Shadow Boss - Never played the original
Perfect Chaos - Not quite
Crisis City - Yes
Rooftop Run - Yes
Planet Wisp - Yes
Silver Boss - Never played the original
Egg Dragoon - Yes

#2778 User is offline Limey Otoko 

Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:38 PM

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I'll play along.

Green Hill - No
Chemical Plant - No
Sky Sanctuary - Yes
Metal Sonic Boss - Yes (It's an actual fight..)
Death Egg Boss - Yes
Speed Highway - Yes
City Escape - Yes
Seaside Hill - Yes
Shadow Boss - No
Perfect Chaos - No
Crisis City - Yes
Rooftop Run - Yes
Planet Wisp - Yes
Silver Boss - OH GOD YES
Egg Dragoon - Yes

#2779 User is online Aerosol 

Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:02 PM

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View PostCrappy Blue Luigi, on 11 February 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

pokecapn demonstrates the most stylish way to die in Speed Highway Act 2.

youtube.com/watch?v=5ZK0Ul1N- -g

Remove the space...


How does that even happen. And there are other moments like this in the game too? Woah!

#2780 User is offline RGamer2009 

Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:06 PM

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Alright, but I think we need to elaborate a bit instead of just listing it.

Green Hill - No
Chemical Plant - No
Sky Sanctuary - No
The originals will still beat out any modern rendition. They're too classic. However their modern renditions were awesome regardless.

Metal Sonic Boss - No
I liked the original race format for this. It proved Metal was on par with Sonic.

Death Egg Boss - No
The way Death Egg worked before was amazing. Yes it took longer but it felt more satisfying.

Speed Highway - No
The original one still works because the layout wasn't confusing to hell.

City Escape - Yes
This one WAS improved. Moderns Version had alot more variety, and the GUN truck was amplified to 11 Billion.

Seaside Hill - No
The original level had team mechanics that worked well for the game it was from. When you try to shoehorn changes that don't reflect the original design and mechanics...I feel something is wrong.

Shadow Boss - NO
The original boss was MUCH more thrilling, and you actually ATTACKED Shadow.

Perfect Chaos - No
The way it was a Super Sonic boss worked. Modern Boosting does not.

Crisis City - Yes
This level received the makeover it deserved.

Rooftop Run - Yes
This level got alot brighter and more chaotic, while keeping the same things that made the original awesome.

Planet Wisp - No
So what if it was all metal? The linear paths and only two Wisp powers JUST CAN'T hold a candle to the original.

Silver Boss - YES
This was unexpectedly my favorite rival battle. It fixed all errors from the original fight and proved to me Silver can work as a character in this regard.

Egg Dragoon - No
While the new fight made it work for Modern Sonic, I felt the original fight felt much tighter and better executed.

#2781 User is offline Shade Vortex 

Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:34 AM

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I'll join in.

Green Hill - No, the one in Generations is too much of a tutorial stage and manages to be even more basic than the original.

Chemical Plant - I'd say they're pretty even. I like things about both of them and they're pretty balanced in what I do and what I don't like.

Sky Sanctuary - Fuck yes, the original level was just a lame transitional level with a boss rush. I'll take an actual stage over that ANY day. This is actually a (well designed) level.

Metal Sonic Boss - I'd honestly say yes. Yes, the original is more "challenging", but the laser, spikes and Metal Sonic all together screamed "frustrating" rather than "difficult". I'd take the easy-ass battle over it any day, because it's more interesting.

Death Egg Boss - Fuck yes. The original was the cheapest piece of shit in my experience with Sonic game bosses. The collision detection was fucked to all hell and made the lack of rings in this stage frustrating to deal with. The new one may be much "easier", but to me, that makes it better. I'd even take the S4 version over the original, even though in some ways it's shittier (like having too many goddamn hit points).

Speed Highway - I'd honestly say yes. The original level was rather linear in some aspects, and the Generations version has even more paths, some being really awesome alternate paths, like switching from grinding on a rail to running on the side of a building. Some of the alternate routes are therefore really clever and fun to go through and find.
City Escape - Yes, the original version of this stage was a bit more linear. The new one has more open areas and quite a few interesting alternate routes, like the Mono Beetle homing attack chain that you have to time right to get by.

Seaside Hill - Yes, the original stage was full of linearity and stop-and-go gameplay where you were forced to switch team members, break obstacles, fly up to higher areas or across gaps, or kill a bunch of robots or destroy walls to proceed. The generations version is actually a consistently fast-enough-paced stage filled with interesting alternate routes, including skipping a whole bunch of the level by boosting over the water areas.

Shadow Boss - Yes, the original was rather badly done if you ask me. It took me YEARS to find out the strategy that works best in the original fight, because I thought I was supposed to light dash through him with the right timing to win. Iirc if you stayed far enough behind him (but not too far) he'll slow down and use his special move, which was the best opportunity to attack. With the new fight, I knew what I had to do: Boost, keep my ring count up, and get to the orbs before Shadow. Much better executed in terms of knowing what the hell you're supposed to do.

Perfect Chaos - The original had a bit more of a randomized challenge element, what with dodging the lasers, while the only thing that will probably kill you in the new one is bottomless pits, I thought it was much better executed and a lot more fun, much less dull too.

Crisis City - Yes, there's no contest here. The original was a glitchy mess that required the use of a broken homing attack, and springs didn't lock your movement so if you moved at all during a jump you tended to fall into a bottomless pit. The grinding and rail switching was also shitty in the original, and the boarding part was badly done. The mach speed area was the most frustrating one in the game, with the worst offense being the camera, which changes abruptly. The new version of the stage doesn't have as many grind rails (which is a good thing), the homing attack actually works in this game, and there are a bunch of interesting alternate paths to boot. Still a bit bottomless pit heavy, though.

Rooftop Run - Yes, the original stages of Unleashed all shared the same problems for me basically, and Generations Rooftop Run fixed those problems. I love how they sacrificed length to add more depth to the stage. There was more routes, and less linearity/boost areas. And of course, no QTE boosters, ramps, no sun/moon medals, and Sonic's controls being fine-tuned for easier control all helped make the stage much better for me. I also loved how they added the flying blimp to the end of the stage.

Planet Wisp - Well, honestly, there are things I like and hate about both stages. They're pretty even, but I like them both.
Silver Boss - FUCK YES. I don't even need to explain how shitty the original was. My only problem with the new one is that if you're out of boost at the end of the fight, it's harder to catch up to and homing attack Silver, making the fight much harder to win at the worst possible time.

Egg Dragoon - Yes, I fucking hate the werehog and QTEs in games, so the Generations version is infinitely superior in every way. It' actually a fight, for one god-damned thing! The original was a button-masher followed by a movie that you press buttons to get the good ending to!

All in all, Generations was very much an improvement over almost everything for me. I bet my opinion will be controversial and be mocked. "o u suk @ teh original boss fights ur so bad u have 2 have it ez to win" for example.
This post has been edited by Shade Vortex: 13 February 2012 - 01:42 AM

#2782 User is online Zephyr 

Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:08 AM

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Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and Sky Sanctuary:
As has been said, the remakes, as great as they are, don't measure up to the originals. The gameplay of R'Unleashed and Generations' classic are too shallow to even compare. They ARE fucking gorgeous though.

Metal Sonic:
Not by a long shot. I mean yes, you're actually hitting him now. However, it's too mindless, simplistic, and un-threatening. You just run, jump over him, and smack him. In Sonic CD you had all kinds of shit to worry about. You had to time your jumps to get over the spikes and properly maneuver the slopes without screwing up. Overall more tension in the original to me, and that's what the fight seemed to be about.

Death Egg Robo:
No. I like the remake, because its more cinematic and all, but it was far less menacing. In the original you have to constantly bide your time, and fucking hope to GOD you don't barely miss his hit box. The remake had rings which removed the tension.

Speed Highway:
Yes. This level's all about speed. The remake features faster gameplay. Thus, the remake is better fitting at meeting the goals of the level. I did miss the small day time portion though...

City Escape:
Yes. A lot less linear in the remake.

Seaside Hill:
Yes. Because you can run on the fucking water.

Shadow:
No. I know in the original it was a pretty bad idea to stop, what with the whole 'walkway falling down' thing, but I do for whatever reason enjoy having the FREEDOM to do a stupid thing like that. The remake was more forced. No light dashing. No ability to stop. That said, I DID enjoy the shit out of it.

Perfect Chaos:
I have to say yes. This version was more elaborate. Not that elaborate mind you, but still more engaging than the original (from what I can remember of playing it, at least).

Crisis City and Silver fight:
Yes. Because Sonic 06 was fucking shit.

Rooftop Run:
Yes. Generations gameplay is just improved Unleashed gameplay, level design and all. So if you take a level from the weaker game and improve it....well the result is pretty implicit.

Planet Wisp:
Never played original.

Egg Dragoon:
Don't remember the original.

#2783 User is offline Josh 

Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:45 AM

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I'll add my two cents, noting that I'm only commenting on the classic-style for the Genesis levels, and the modern for everything else:

EDIT: Decided to put all this behind spoiler tags, because a) all this text is getting ugly, and b) I wouldn't want the main point of my message to be buried in-between a bunch of people stating their opinions and not responding to one-another.

Spoiler


To introduce a new subject, I wonder if we'll ever dig up some interesting stuff from Generations' development? One thing seems pretty obvious: this game was rushed. Not BADLY rushed, and rushed in the sense that most games are rushed, but still rushed. Fortunately, the dev team focused on the important stuff (making sure the gameplay was top-notch), and let everything else fall through the cracks.

It's interesting how many little odds-and-ends there seem to be here. The CG cutscenes in individual levels from the trailers; the way the skill system is kind of oddly set-up (DASH & STYLE!); the clunkiness and lack of polish on the final boss...
This post has been edited by Josh: 13 February 2012 - 04:00 AM

#2784 User is offline TheKazeblade 

Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:57 AM

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Green Hill: No
It's a tough one, because Sonic 1 is my least favorite of the classics, but the original Green Hill was just a bit more compelling and full.

Chemical Plant: No
Just lacks the meat of the original, but still fun

Sky Sanctuary: Yes
Generation's rendition is an improvement in nearly every aspect, minus how the level ends. I would have preferred it to end somehow launching yourself onto the Death Egg somehow, just for continuity's sake.

Metal Sonic Boss: No
I like the fact that you can damage him this time, but the original felt much more frantic. You couldn't hurt him, so you had to win or lose on his terms instead of yours, and if you were too slow, you could lose.

Death Egg Boss: No
Beating the Death Egg is much more fulfilling in Sonic 2 than in Generations, because it's done with your own skill and careful movements as opposed to an outside element such as the the explosive switches.

Speed Highway: Yes
It feels like an intense romp through skyscrapers. It took the intensity that SA had in its time and recreated it to be relevant now. Love it.

City Escape: Yes
Everything was such an amazing improvement, save for the fact that it no longer fulfills its original purpose to make it feel like a skate-punk urban parkour type-thing. Still, mechanically, there's nothing but improvements that have been made.

Seaside Hill: Yes
THIS is what future Sonic zones should play like. Huge level, plenty of multiple paths and a gorgeous setting. It did what Heroes didn't come close to.

Shadow Boss: No
Along the same reasons I don't like the Death Egg fight as much this time around is the fact that you're using arbitrary outside items to win the fight, rather than it being a 1-on-1 fight between equals who win or lose based on their own skills. Loved the SA2:B homage cutscene, though

Perfect Chaos: Yes
Coming from a guy who just played it again 2 days ago, everything done here was a massive improvement, save for the fact it was regular Sonic pulling it off, which makes it feel a bit less important. Gameplay-wise, though, Perfect Chaos has never been more fun.

Crisis City: Yes
This one requires no explanation. It was good this level had a chance to be played in a non-broken game. I loved this level.

Rooftop Run: Yes
Considering Generations is an enhanced version of Unleashed, its easy to say that Generations would be better. However, I always loved the lighting in Unleashed more than Generations, so the original has the edge from an aesthetic standpoint for me.

Planet Wisp: Yes
I loved the original, however having this level without the gameplay and graphical limitations of the Wii made all the difference in the world. Such an improvement.

Silver Boss: Yes
See explaination of Crisis City. There is no comparison here, and it almost completely redeems Silver's shortcomings in my eyes. Almost.

Egg Dragoon: Yes
Of course. I'd take playing as Sonic over the Werehog any day.

#2785 User is offline Vangar 

Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:05 AM

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Dunno what you guys are on about, CPZ in Generations is way more exciting and fun. But I dare say it's one of the best levels in a Sonic game either way.

#2786 User is offline BrigadierBaz 

Posted 13 February 2012 - 10:33 AM

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Forgive me if this was already observed earlier, but does anyone else see the similarities between:


The main melody of this...

...and 2.12 onwards of this.


#2787 User is offline Lobotomy 

Posted 13 February 2012 - 10:37 AM

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Yeah, that would be because they are the same song.

#2788 User is offline BrigadierBaz 

Posted 13 February 2012 - 10:51 AM

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View PostLobotomy, on 13 February 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

Yeah, that would be because they are the same song.


Not just that, the prototype version contained a guitar riff that wasn't in the final game. The exact same notes have been used in the classic mix at the time I pointed out.

#2789 User is offline Overlord 

Posted 13 February 2012 - 02:21 PM

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That's correct, it is using the prototype version. A nice touch really, because as an instrumental it's a much fuller song :)

#2790 User is offline DustArma 

Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:16 PM

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View PostZephyr, on 13 February 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:


Shadow: No ability to stop.



Not sure which shadow battle were you playing but you can very much stop and backtrack through the level in Generations, there's no autorun at all.

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