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Sonic 2 HD Alpha release

#646 User is offline kazade 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:30 AM

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I wouldn't say it's automatically malicious that the app writes to the registry - I mean, it's there to store configuration settings after all. Whether or not is good practice is a different question, but doing so is not inherently evil. Likewise, grabbing input when the window is not in focus isn't inherently evil either, although considering that a game shouldn't need to again, it's bad practice.

The real issue here is this. We *all* know that LOst is arrogant. We *know* that he obfuscated the code, we *know* that virus scanners flag it up, we *know* that he implemented a DRM system to prevent hacking and we *know* that he would have locked his code down even more if he could.

Do you trust him?

I don't, and seeing as I can't see the source code, there's not a chance in hell I'd run this outside of Wine, and even then it's more risk than I care to take. Unfortunately, this, on top of the existing issues I have with the non-community, non-open development model of S2HD have killed it for me. The best thing that the S2HD members could do now is:

* Rename the project (cut all ties with S2HD, that name is now toxic)
* Open a new forum
* Host all of the existing artwork/music/tools publically (so people can improve and re-use)
* Advertise for programmers to develop an accurate, cross-platform, well-coded engine[1]
* Make the whole thing a proper, open community project, with a bug tracker and code on GitHub or Retro's Mercurial server
* Make someone a gatekeeper, or have a panel of 3 people or something who vote on what makes the grade and what doesn't and give them the power to merge branches. Proper open source style.

Basically, IMO, a fresh start is the only thing that'll save this now.

Luke.

[1] Like every other programmer on here, I'm working on this, but it will likely never be finished.
This post has been edited by kazade: 10 April 2012 - 08:35 AM

#647 User is offline Ayu Tsukimiya 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:31 AM

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I REALLY hope that the rest of the dev team continues to work on this game. Providing an explanation and moving on with this game would be the best thing for their reputation, in my opinion.


Spoiler


#648 User is offline Retroman 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:34 AM

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View Postkazade, on 10 April 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

The best thing that the S2HD members could do now is:

* Rename the project (cut all ties with S2HD, that name is now toxic)
* Open a new forum
* Host all of the existing artwork/music/tools publically (so people can improve and re-use)
* Advertise for programmers to develop an accurate, cross-platform, well-coded engine[1]
* Make the whole thing a proper, open community project, with a bug tracker and code on GitHub or Retro's Mercurial server
* Make someone a gatekeeper, or have a panel of 3 people or something who vote on what makes the grade and what doesn't and give them the power to merge branches. Proper open source style.

Basically, IMO, a fresh start is the only thing that'll save this now.

Luke.

[1] Like every other programmer on here, I'm working on this, but it will likely never be finished.


I agree with all points! Also, release the engine open-source and have multiple people working on it to recreate the original physics rather than one person who is expected to complete an engine for the art etc. Call this project Sonic 2 Reimagined in HD or Sonic 2 RID. No excuses or anything. This was made originally as an open-source community, it shall remain as one.

Another positive of open-source is that other game remasters like Sonic 3 HD or even a Sonic CD HD remake can be made easier using the engine source code and the assets made to 'build up', but these HD things are made as a leisure thing too. Everyone should voice their opinions, but we know how that ended up for Sonic 4.

So it's best if they are abit more open and change abit.
This post has been edited by Retroman: 10 April 2012 - 08:41 AM

#649 User is offline Guess Who 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

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Can we please keep the discourse here civil? Telling a forum member, no matter what they've done, to eat shit, kill themselves, and burn in hell doesn't add anything to the conversation.

#650 User is offline Vangar 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:41 AM

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Quote

Host all of the existing artwork/music/tools publically (so people can improve and re-use)


I said it before and I'll say it again. I truly believe this will be the only way forward for this project, or be stuck in limbo forever. let the engine get optimized and used as an 'engine' rather then a S2 single game. Releasing the tools free to use by anyone, to import art and create level maps.

Upload the maps / art you make to the forum, hey presto. Infinite Sonic Classic levels for all!

#651 User is offline Cinossu 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:16 AM

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View PostGuess Who, on 10 April 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Can we please keep the discourse here civil? Telling a forum member, no matter what they've done, to eat shit, kill themselves, and burn in hell doesn't add anything to the conversation.
This. As well as everyone doing this, repeating the same things everyone else is saying ("oh LOst what have you done now", "why doesn't he release it open source", etc. etc.) is just post +1 padding. Let's keep it to actual discussion about the points, please. I've already moved and deleted some posts, don't start becoming Shark bait, people.

#652 User is offline Dario FF 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:24 AM

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For the sake of damage control I already deleted the torrent from my seeds, and I guess everyone should do so as well in case they decide to take off the main downloads.

Spoiler


EDIT: This assuming it's official that there's a keylogger. I have my doubts and just think it's buggy DInput, but honestly I'm a bit tired of seeing all this people pointing out the "false" positive and this has got me doubting even more.
This post has been edited by Dario FF: 10 April 2012 - 09:29 AM

#653 User is offline Ayu Tsukimiya 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:08 AM

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So, where is the S2HD team, anyway?

Are they talking among themselves to see how the future of the project should be handled? Are they giving up and letting this guy ruin all of their hard work?

I really would like some conformation about all this.

View PostRetroman, on 10 April 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:


I agree with all points! Also, release the engine open-source and have multiple people working on it to recreate the original physics rather than one person who is expected to complete an engine for the art etc. Call this project Sonic 2 Reimagined in HD or Sonic 2 RID. No excuses or anything. This was made originally as an open-source community, it shall remain as one.

Another positive of open-source is that other game remasters like Sonic 3 HD or even a Sonic CD HD remake can be made easier using the engine source code and the assets made to 'build up', but these HD things are made as a leisure thing too. Everyone should voice their opinions, but we know how that ended up for Sonic 4.

So it's best if they are abit more open and change abit.


Having the sprites from this being open source would be awesome. In fact, couldn't you just patch Sonic CD 2011 with a bit of hacking? Most of Sonic and Tails' sprites are already there, same with the boxes and rings.
This post has been edited by Ayu Tsukimiya: 10 April 2012 - 10:13 AM

#654 User is offline Deef 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:13 AM

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This game is becoming more entertaining than the game itself. I feel sorry for the S2HD crew, this thing just can't catch a break can it?

Just keep going guys. The demo plays great; so great that now I fire up S2HD to check things instead of an actual ROM. So don't let the setbacks get you down, lol we're used to it now. S2HD still looks very promising and I look forward to seeing this game rocket through Chemical Plant, and to seeing how good Aquatic Ruin will look, and playing to all those new remixes.

#655 User is offline Dark Warrior 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:14 AM

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Well, this is an interesting turn of events. I doubt we'll ever actually hear from LOst regarding this, but I know I want to hear the reasoning behind this. Frankly, after this nonsense, I don't think anything short of releasing the entirety of the code used in the S2HD release is an acceptable apology. And even then, I wouldn't be surprised if someone somewhere considered legal action (Dunno if/how much this breaks the law, though, myself).

As for the S2HD team, I really do feel sorry for you guys. I hope you can find a way to move forward from this because I really liked what I've seen of S2HD this far. I know I'd be absolutely furious if I caught wind of something like this on a project I worked for, and probably more than a little discouraged. I'm glad that a decent amount of people here are at least able to lay the blame where it belongs (LOst) rather than the S2HD team as a whole. Sorry guys. Just keep plugging.

#656 User is offline Selbi 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:25 AM

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To be honest, I just want to hear a statement of LOst. I don't give a damn that he did it, I just want to know why he did it.

#657 User is offline Guess Who 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

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Again, as far as we can tell there's no keylogger, just a bug in the input code. If you want to know why that exists, it is most likely incompetence.

#658 User is offline Deef 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:33 AM

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Oh. Then the person who reported "keylogger" has already set off a bit of a bushfire.

#659 User is offline SANiK 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:51 AM

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Drama-rama!
Here's my prediction of what's happening and is going to happen:

1) LOst incorrectly implements direct input, capturing input even when the game's out of focus.
2) LOst also probably buffers input in an array, registering ALL keystrokes in a timely order, but then scans that buffer for valid game keystrokes.

3) Some individual sees the game using the wrong input hooks, starts the KEYLOGGER bandwagon!
4) ScarredSun, being full of journalistic integrity, posts a warning article based on technical information, without providing that technical information.

5) Other news sources pick it up.
6) People confuse ScarredSun to be a S2HD developer, misinterpreting the story as: "Dev gets told that his/her project has a virus - Dev acknowledges it."

7) LOst is labelled a villain.
8) S2HD loses fan support/trust.

9) It is later found the keylogger scare was a false alarm.
10) ScarredSun say "Oops ... well should have been open source hurr durr." [She already did in IRC chat]

11) News that it was a false alarm doesn't spread.
12) LOst probably switches to Open Source format to try to regain trust.

13) SEGA loses interest in purchasing the project because it's harder to define who worked on it and who didn't due to the open source nature.
(Compared to the TaxMan purchase which was closed source)

Furthermore, I know LOst was trying to implement multiplayer, but I don't know if he started on it.
God forbid he did, otherwise people would have mistaken the multiplayer code for keylogger transmission.

Anyways, what's next? ScarredSun posts that Chrome is logging keys we type and transmitting them across the net, making it a keylogger?

In all seriousness?
Journalistic integrity? Out of the window.
This post has been edited by SANiK: 10 April 2012 - 11:54 AM

#660 User is offline jman2050 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:56 AM

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Yeah, like Sega was ever interested in touching Sonic 2 HD in the first place...

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